If the sprinklers weren’t 50 years old, I would be on board with you 100%. But in this case, even if they determine there was a manufacturing defect, wouldn’t the “statute of limitations” have run out sometime in the last 50-plus years? So what would you gain by determining that was the cause? That’s all I’m trying to get at.
-Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Scott Futrell Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly I guess that sentence makes a little more sense with the question mark that is missing. The cost of engineering is less than another water loss was the point. And, by the way, no one is really counting how many sprinklers operate unintendedly, but that’s a different thread. None of those I’ve investigated have ever made to any statistic keeper for accidental operation. I have thirty-three in one apartment building. Forensically determined to be manufacturing… Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Scott Futrell Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 10:28 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Please read thoroughly and carefully all of the emails I posted and don’t start picking at one aspect. It can be done properly or it can be done piece-meal. I don’t care. What’s the cost of one more water loss? Less than all the engineering I’ve proposed. I get to see the results of piece-meal far too often. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Montgomery Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:44 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Pressure relief valves are “conceivably a waste of money”... coming from the guy that suggested the forensic metallurgist. How much will the forensic metallurgist charge Larry to tell him it’s time to replace his 50-plus year old heads? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 13, 2018, at 6:02 PM, Scott Futrell <sco...@ffcdi.com<mailto:sco...@ffcdi.com>> wrote: Band-Aid and conceivably a waste of money. Sprinklers are tested at very high pressures, surges aren’t going to randomly operate sprinklers. Should the system have a pressure relief valve, probably yes. Is that the solution here, most likely, no. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:57 PM To: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: Re: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Contact the sprinkler contractor that services you systems. That should be able to steer you in the right direction. They can be added at the riser and will prevent over pressurization On Sep 13, 2018 at 8:48 PM, <Property Manager Larry Block<mailto:larry.stew...@earthlink.net>> wrote: Is the relief valve like a overgrown plumbing PRV? Stupid by nature but effective at preventing a calamity? … and starts dripping for no reason? ☺ From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 5:31 PM To: Sprinklerforum Subject: Re: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly A relief vale would be a good place to start. That could tell you if it is a pressure or temperature problem. On Sep 13, 2018 at 6:29 PM, <Property Manager Larry Block<mailto:larry.stew...@earthlink.net>> wrote: Blown heads have been located at branch ends, some near a riser, most in the middle somewhere. Not sure about “lower water usage has dimensioned due to time of day “. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 3:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Sounds like it could be a combination. Maybe some solder creep from the temps, location of building if it is one a dead end or circulating part of the main, lower water usage has dimensioned due to time of day allowing high enough pressure back into system. Not a surge.., but. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP Design Manager /3-D Specialist Rapid Fire Protection Inc.<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__rapidfireinc.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=PEHRr3pzIIiQU5f3oGCjW1V5dV43qMEdNl0lHKwT5e4&s=qX7vBWQK41lTRQANCDxavtFhS4D1r7IFdmwWPp8065g&e=> 1530 Samco Road Rapid City, SD 57702 Office-605.348.2342 Direct Line-605.593.5063 Cell-605.391.2733 Fax:-605.348.0108 <image001.png> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Larry Block, Property Manager Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 3:53 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Thanks Tom. Not sure what heat rejection is. This is happening at night so the roof will have already cooled significantly from the day’s peak, it is always just one head blowing and it is only this one property. So, in this scenario, the link must be melting/softening? Larry From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Tom Duross Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 2:43 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Probably a buildup of pressure from heat rejection off the roof. Check system gauges. A good pilot operated relief valve would open to relieve and close. From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Jeff Normand Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 5:32 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Sprinkler heads popping off randomly Does it only happen in the summertime or hot days? 165 F sprinklers at the roof of a warehouse, this would normally require 200 F sprinklers. That would be my first guess but if it is only 1 sprinkler at a time, I just don't know. On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:20 PM Larry Block, Property Manager <larry.stew...@earthlink.net<mailto:larry.stew...@earthlink.net>> wrote: Hi to all! I manage a number of most warehousing industrial parks around Los Angeles and only 1 of them has a problem with heads popping off for no apparent reason. We really need some help here in identifying the cause and its correction. Many have said to just replace them but who is to say that this will not happen again soon, if not later. The facts: 1. Concrete tilt up bldg from 1967 with its roof at 20’ H. 2. Heads are Reliable model C with the fusible link 3. Heads will get the 50 year UL testing in 4 years (though I assume the 165degF rating is not relevant here) 4. We have lost 7 heads over 15 years, with 3 in the last 4 months! 5. The link assemblies are never found but the remaining “rings” show no issues. The bronze seats of the head’s water port are always in perfect condition. 6. We see that the head’s “knuckle” that is opposite the fusible link is usually perfectly aligned, but a few of them are offset up to a 1/16” and it appears that when they move like that, they are rotating in an arc from the pivot points . 7. The water utility swears that at the time of these events, there are no pressure surges. 8. No more than one head has ever gone off at a time and are not just at one location or riser. 9. A nearby similar bldg of ours from 1968 with the same heads has never had one such event. We have entertained the possibility of water pressure, birds, electrolysis, dezincification, vibration and are at a loss. Any helpful thoughts? 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