My $0.025 worth of opinion...if you have a modest water supply, say 60psi
static, that first head isn't going to flow at the 19.6 (14x14 @0.1
density) minimum. It is going to go off at 43 gpm (sounds EH to me), then
the second goes off,  then the third...We calc for a minimum required, not
an actual flow. Second, what is the purpose here? We are putting enough
water on the fire to keep things in control until the big red trucks
arrive. Let's keep things in perspective and not overthink it. Other than
the mats, what is there to burn? If one were to light these mats on fire,
will the wrestlers have time to get up and escape? Light hazard in my
humble opinion.

Nick Maneen, SET
704-791-7789

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 6:39 PM Bruce Verhei <bver...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I don’t know what density is required. I’m still listening.
>
> I can tell you from the fire marshals office perspective trying to
> regulate type of foam and cover would be an exercise in futility.
>
> Best.
>
> Bruce Verhei
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 14:41, Joe Burtell <j...@burtellfire.com> wrote:
>
> If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often
> than not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive
> systems which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first
> place. Unless someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling
> rooms are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the
> walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they
> be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic
> materials in the first place?
>
> Best regards,
>
> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>
>
>
> [image: Burtell Fire_Small]
>
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.**”*
>
> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
> intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
> original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
> saving it in any manner.  Thank you.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on
>> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the
>> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.
>>
>> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high
>> school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber
>> floors or foam mats?
>>
>> Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into
>> off-season high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are
>> HPS).    Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by
>> my refusal to concur that the sky is falling.
>>
>>
>>
>> SL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
>> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Fpdcdesign
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
>> *To:* Sprinklerforum
>> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it
>> should be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is
>> especially true for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.
>>
>>
>> Todd G Williams, PE
>>
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>>
>> Stonington, CT
>>
>> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>>
>> 860-553-3553 (fax)
>>
>> 860-608-4559 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM, <Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like
>> structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is
>> considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.  I get that, but that wasn’t the
>> question.   As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck moving
>> the goods off of ladders.
>>
>>
>>
>> SML
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
>> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Reed A.
>> Roisum, SET
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
>> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> *Subject:* RE: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic
>> rooms are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to
>> require OH2 for those spaces.
>>
>>
>>
>> *2015 MN Fire Code*
>>
>> *SECTION 903*
>>
>> *AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS*
>>
>> *903.3 Installation requirements.*
>>
>> *903.3.1 Standards. *
>>
>> *903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria.** When fire sprinkler
>> systems are required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be
>> designed and installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that
>> required for an Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:*
>>
>> *1. Chemistry labs; or*
>>
>> *2. Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.*
>>
>>
>>
>> Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition
>> source or not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?  What if
>> you had rack storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source
>> the house electrical system??
>>
>>
>>
>> Reed A. Roisum, SET *|* *Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc.* *|* Senior Fire
>> Protection Designer *|* Fargo, ND *|** direct: *701.552.9903* | *
>> *mobile:* 701.388.1352 *|* *KFIengineers.com*
>> <http://www.kfiengineers.com>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Leyton
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 10:20 AM
>> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> *Subject:* RE: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> What about hoarders?   I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be
>> EH2.
>>
>>
>>
>> This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly
>> escalated to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and
>> stored in the room, in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy
>> to a wrestling mat factory.    I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys
>> three and four classes heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot
>> scrubber, I can’t think of a single ignition source in such a room except
>> for the house electrical system.    I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …  and
>> sincerest apologies if my tone was misconstrued.
>>
>>
>>
>> SL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [
>> mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] *On Behalf Of *
>> Fpdcdesign
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
>> *To:* Sprinklerforum
>> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer
>> of floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during
>> the summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities
>> moved around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping
>> is there between LH and OH?
>>
>>
>> Todd G Williams, PE
>>
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>>
>> Stonington, CT
>>
>> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>>
>> 860-553-3553 (fax)
>>
>> 860-608-4559 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, <Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher
>> hazard group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?
>> What about the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel
>> Room??  To bring plastics into the conversation because of portable floor
>> covering is a distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Leyton
>>
>>
>>
>> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: Scott Futrell <sco...@ffcdi.com>
>>
>> Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
>>
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>
>> Subject: RE: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors,
>> and/or rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
>>
>> Cell: (612) 759-5556
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> *On
>> Behalf Of *Ron Greenman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
>> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater
>> than that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like
>> it might be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid
>> of all the desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc.,
>> that are in an office space.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron Greenman
>>
>> rongreen...@gmail.com
>>
>> 253.576.9700
>>
>>
>>
>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
>> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
>> director (1942-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies
>> in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the
>> restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling
>> and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push
>> back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Leyton
>>
>>
>>
>> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: Joe Burtell <j...@burtellfire.com>
>>
>> Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>>
>> Subject: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling,
>> fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats?
>> It seems overkill to me but new information is always coming out.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>>
>>
>>
>> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>>
>> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>>
>> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>>
>> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>>
>> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
>> low price is forgotten.”*
>>
>> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
>> intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
>> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
>> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
>> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
>> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
>> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
>> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
>> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
>> original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
>> saving it in any manner.  Thank you.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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