At least one of the Twin Cities local jurisdictions want to see these system or 
fire protection sprinklers installed in all kitchen hoods. The Fire Marshall 
want to have protection even when the agent has been expended (such as an agent 
only system). (they also want sprinklers to back up clean agent installations). 
I think we have always shown them connected to the domestic as per the 
installation manual.

David T Williams – Lead MEP/FP Engineer

LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN.

From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf 
Of Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:37 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Captive Aire Systems

Travis,

Like Bruce, I may be a few years out of date also but I've never seen one of 
these connected to a sprinkler system. They are for a special hazard and so 
independent of the life safety and building protection definition for a 
sprinkler system. These are designed to smother the fire with the saponifying 
agent and then use the water to cool down the appliances to avoid reflash. Way 
back in the nineties, this system was a way that Ansul came up with to meet the 
new requirements of UL 300. requirements that commercial cooking operations had 
to comply with even in unsprinklered buildings (think stand-alone McDonald's, 
Red Robins, etc, under 5000 or 6000 sqft that weren't required to be 
sprinklered then). Note that NFPA 13 isn't even referenced as an applicable 
code/standard.

CODES AND STANDARDS
The PIRANHA hybrid wet agent system and its components meet the following 
codes, standards and recommended practices:

1. Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. (UL): Standard 300 – Fire Testing of Fire 
Extinguishing Systems for Protection of Restaurant Cooking Areas.

2. Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. (UL): Standard 2092 – Pre-Engineered Wet 
Chemical Extinguishing Units.

3. Underwriters Laboratory of Canada (ULC): Standard ORD-C1254.6 – 
Pre-Engineered Wet Chemical Extinguishing System Units.

4. National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): Standard 17A – Wet Chemical 
Extinguishing Systems.

5. National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): Standard 96 – Ventilation 
Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations.

6. American Society of Sanitary Engineers (ASSE): Standard 1001 – Cross 
Connection Protection Devices: Guidelines for Selection of the Proper Type of 
Backflow Preventor – Piped Applied Atmospheric Vacuum Breakers.

7. International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials (IAPMO): 
Installation, Material and Property Standard PS 108-98 – Grease Fire 
Suppression Systems.


Ron Greenman

rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 8:21 AM Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum 
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
The purpose of a “hood” in this application is to direct and capture grease 
laden stuff…

Re: NFPA 96.

R/
Matt

Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP
Design Manager /3-D Specialist
Rapid Fire Protection Inc.<http://rapidfireinc.com/>
1530 Samco Road
Rapid City, SD 57702
Office-605.348.2342
Direct Line-605.593.5063
Cell-605.391.2733
Fax:-605.348.0108

[cid:image001.png@01D159E8.1A3A2D00]

From: Sprinklerforum 
<sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Jonathan Mote via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:15 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Jonathan Mote 
<jonat...@rowesprinkler.com<mailto:jonat...@rowesprinkler.com>>
Subject: RE: Captive Aire Systems

Those hoods meet the definition of a draft curtain, added in 2013 edition, I 
would think they could be considered independently of the regular system.

Jonathan Mote, WBSL NICET II

From: Sprinklerforum 
<sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:32 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G 
<tm...@mfpdesign.com<mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com>>; 'Bruce Verhei' 
<bver...@comcast.net<mailto:bver...@comcast.net>>
Subject: RE: Captive Aire Systems

Get this.  They are concerned of the domestic system robbing the hood of the 
water.  So this is why they are pushing it to the sprinkler system.  We’ve seen 
these attached to both domestic and fire.  I always push for domestic because I 
don’t want to deal with them.  I find it funny that the hood supplier will say 
it has to connect to the sprinkler system but they won’t do anything to prove 
it will work.  They throw that all back to the sprinkler guys.  Just been one 
of those days.

[MFP_logo_F]<http://www.mfpdesign.com/>
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
tm...@mfpdesign.com<mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com>
www.mfpdesign.com<http://www.mfpdesign.com>

Send large files to us via: 
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From: Sprinklerforum 
<sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Bruce Verhei via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 3:28 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Bruce Verhei <bver...@comcast.net<mailto:bver...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Captive Aire Systems

I might be a couple years out of date. I think the ones we saw were off 
domestic water, with a small backflow device. You can’t run a restaurant 
without water, so there is no concern about water system not being monitored.
Best.

On Aug 14, 2019, at 15:19, Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via 
Sprinklerforum 
<sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 wrote:
I’m sure some of you have dealt with these Captive Aire / Piranha systems.  
Basically they are hood systems that connect to the sprinkler system.  The one 
I have a data sheet for has an operating pressure of 32-70 psi and flows vary 
depending on # of nozzles.  How do those of you dealing with these handle them? 
 The supplier will not do any calculations for the system.  My question is, do 
we treat these like a “rack” system and balance the hood systems to the 
overhead?  If I have a kitchen with 3 of these, do I figure 0, 1, 2 or 3 
flowing simultaneously with the overhead.  As you can imagine, a standard 
sprinkler in the kitchen is ±10 psi.  Now, if we have to treat this like a rack 
system and balance at the junction point, this 30 psi for the Piranha system 
will significantly over-discharge the sprinklers leading to a much larger 
kitchen demand.  These often seem to be brought up toward the end of the 
project leaving everyone scrambling.

What has the collective group been doing with these things?

<image002.jpg><http://www.mfpdesign.com/>
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
tm...@mfpdesign.com<mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com>
www.mfpdesign.com<http://www.mfpdesign.com>

Send large files to us via: 
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“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”


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