I’ve run into these on multiple projects. They go by the name Captive Aire, 
Core and Pirhana. 

They have a pressure demand of 32-70 psi and a flow rate of about 40 gpm 
depending on the number of nozzles. We see these in Marriott properties often. 

They can be off domestic or fire as I see it. They are supposed to be direct 
line as was described to me yesterday. So they can’t have sinks or other 
fixture coming off the line supplying them. Doesn’t make sense why it can 
attach to sprinkler then. But none of the suppliers will state if we have to 
flow this simultaneously with sprinklers. 

This job is always fun. Get to see lots of crazy things. 

Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
480-505-9271
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign,com
Send large files to MFP Design via:
https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2019, at 11:36 AM, Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum 
> <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
> 
> Travis,
> 
> Like Bruce, I may be a few years out of date also but I've never seen one of 
> these connected to a sprinkler system. They are for a special hazard and so 
> independent of the life safety and building protection definition for a 
> sprinkler system. These are designed to smother the fire with the saponifying 
> agent and then use the water to cool down the appliances to avoid reflash. 
> Way back in the nineties, this system was a way that Ansul came up with to 
> meet the new requirements of UL 300. requirements that commercial cooking 
> operations had to comply with even in unsprinklered buildings (think 
> stand-alone McDonald's, Red Robins, etc, under 5000 or 6000 sqft that weren't 
> required to be sprinklered then). Note that NFPA 13 isn't even referenced as 
> an applicable code/standard.
> 
> CODES AND STANDARDS 
> The PIRANHA hybrid wet agent system and its components meet the following 
> codes, standards and recommended practices: 
> 
> 1. Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. (UL): Standard 300 – Fire Testing of Fire 
> Extinguishing Systems for Protection of Restaurant Cooking Areas. 
> 
> 2. Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. (UL): Standard 2092 – Pre-Engineered Wet 
> Chemical Extinguishing Units. 
> 
> 3. Underwriters Laboratory of Canada (ULC): Standard ORD-C1254.6 – 
> Pre-Engineered Wet Chemical Extinguishing System Units. 
> 
> 4. National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): Standard 17A – Wet Chemical 
> Extinguishing Systems. 
> 
> 5. National Fire Protection Association (NFPA): Standard 96 – Ventilation 
> Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations. 
> 
> 6. American Society of Sanitary Engineers (ASSE): Standard 1001 – Cross 
> Connection Protection Devices: Guidelines for Selection of the Proper Type of 
> Backflow Preventor – Piped Applied Atmospheric Vacuum Breakers. 
> 
> 7. International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials (IAPMO): 
> Installation, Material and Property Standard PS 108-98 – Grease Fire 
> Suppression Systems.  
> 
> 
> Ron Greenman
> 
> rongreen...@gmail.com
> 
> 253.576.9700
> 
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner 
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 8:21 AM Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum 
>> <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>> The purpose of a “hood” in this application is to direct and capture grease 
>> laden stuff…
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Re: NFPA 96.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> R/
>> 
>> Matt
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP
>> 
>> Design Manager /3-D Specialist
>> 
>> Rapid Fire Protection Inc.
>> 
>> 1530 Samco Road
>> 
>> Rapid City, SD 57702
>> 
>> Office-605.348.2342
>> 
>> Direct Line-605.593.5063
>> 
>> Cell-605.391.2733
>> 
>> Fax:-605.348.0108
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> <image002.png>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On 
>> Behalf Of Jonathan Mote via Sprinklerforum
>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:15 AM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Cc: Jonathan Mote <jonat...@rowesprinkler.com>
>> Subject: RE: Captive Aire Systems
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Those hoods meet the definition of a draft curtain, added in 2013 edition, I 
>> would think they could be considered independently of the regular system.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Jonathan Mote, WBSL NICET II
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On 
>> Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via Sprinklerforum
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:32 PM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Cc: Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G <tm...@mfpdesign.com>; 'Bruce 
>> Verhei' <bver...@comcast.net>
>> Subject: RE: Captive Aire Systems
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Get this.  They are concerned of the domestic system robbing the hood of the 
>> water.  So this is why they are pushing it to the sprinkler system.  We’ve 
>> seen these attached to both domestic and fire.  I always push for domestic 
>> because I don’t want to deal with them.  I find it funny that the hood 
>> supplier will say it has to connect to the sprinkler system but they won’t 
>> do anything to prove it will work.  They throw that all back to the 
>> sprinkler guys.  Just been one of those days.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> <image003.jpg>
>> 
>> Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
>> 
>> MFP Design, LLC
>> 
>> 3356 E Vallejo Ct
>> 
>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>> 
>> 480-505-9271
>> 
>> fax: 866-430-6107
>> 
>> tm...@mfpdesign.com
>> 
>> www.mfpdesign.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>> 
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low 
>> price is forgotten.”
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On 
>> Behalf Of Bruce Verhei via Sprinklerforum
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 3:28 PM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Cc: Bruce Verhei <bver...@comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: Captive Aire Systems
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I might be a couple years out of date. I think the ones we saw were off 
>> domestic water, with a small backflow device. You can’t run a restaurant 
>> without water, so there is no concern about water system not being 
>> monitored.  
>> 
>> Best.
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 15:19, Travis Mack, SET, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G via 
>> Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m sure some of you have dealt with these Captive Aire / Piranha systems.  
>> Basically they are hood systems that connect to the sprinkler system.  The 
>> one I have a data sheet for has an operating pressure of 32-70 psi and flows 
>> vary depending on # of nozzles.  How do those of you dealing with these 
>> handle them?  The supplier will not do any calculations for the system.  My 
>> question is, do we treat these like a “rack” system and balance the hood 
>> systems to the overhead?  If I have a kitchen with 3 of these, do I figure 
>> 0, 1, 2 or 3 flowing simultaneously with the overhead.  As you can imagine, 
>> a standard sprinkler in the kitchen is ±10 psi.  Now, if we have to treat 
>> this like a rack system and balance at the junction point, this 30 psi for 
>> the Piranha system will significantly over-discharge the sprinklers leading 
>> to a much larger kitchen demand.  These often seem to be brought up toward 
>> the end of the project leaving everyone scrambling.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> What has the collective group been doing with these things?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> <image002.jpg>
>> 
>> Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
>> 
>> MFP Design, LLC
>> 
>> 3356 E Vallejo Ct
>> 
>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>> 
>> 480-505-9271
>> 
>> fax: 866-430-6107
>> 
>> tm...@mfpdesign.com
>> 
>> www.mfpdesign.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>> 
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low 
>> price is forgotten.”
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
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>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
>> 
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