Have they ever clarified what kind of “confusion” they are trying to avoid?
Is there a difference in how a fire department deals with a wet system vs a dry system? Matt From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:08 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] FW: Dry Pipe Valve to Wet Mike, that would be a non-functional fire protection device that has the appearance of functioning as described in 901.4.5 and would be required to be removed as proscribed therein. This DPV though it would no longer operate as a DPV would still function as a fire protection device, allowing water to flow through it to open sprinkler heads. In fact it would perform better than originally designed as the dry pipe trip and delivery time lag would be eliminated and the design area would be at 30% larger than a wet system would need and based on a lower C-Factor. Plus failure due to problems only encountered in dry systems would be eliminated. Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com> 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 1:00 PM Michael Hill via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> wrote: While it seems trivial to us who deal with it for a living, imagine the building caught fire and there were fire/smoke/water damages. I bet an insurance company lawyer could convince others that if the existing dry pipe valve was modified, there is no way of telling what else “didn’t meet code” with the system. Why take a chance. What about removing power to a fire pump but leaving it in place and connected to the water supply. Where would you draw the line. Mike Hill From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 3:54 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] FW: Dry Pipe Valve to Wet Mark, I think that you're referencing 901.4.5 (in the 2012 edition of the IFC) but that is addressing systems that appear to be life safety or fire protection systems but don't function as such. A common example is a camera disguised as a sprinkler head. In John's case it would still function as a fire protection device. Don, As to listing, it would definitely no longer meet its listing, but since it was turned into just a fancy piece of pipe would it matter? John, As to the FM, would ne be satisfied if were strip down of obvious DPV like the air line and the water motor line, have the holes plugged, and have it marked as no longer being any kind of valve? Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com> 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 12:33 PM Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> wrote: There is an obscure section in the fire code that essentially says you’re not allowed to have anything in a sprinkler system that doesn’t function as what it appears to be. Anyone know the chapter and verse on this? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:19 PM, John Paulsen via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> wrote: Yes, you could do that, but you would have to dismount the DPV. We are trying to determine if removing the clapper and installing a flow switch is a “prohibited” procedure. John Paulsen – SET Sprinkler System Design & Sales Silco Fire and Security 2345 Southwest Blvd. Grove City, OH 43123 P-614-449-2101 Ext. 3367 F-614-449-2007 C-614-348-8206 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Mark.Phelps via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 3:15 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: Mark.Phelps <mphe...@aerofire.com<mailto:mphe...@aerofire.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] FW: Dry Pipe Valve to Wet Just curious, but wouldn’t it be about the same to just replace the valve with a spool? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:08 PM, John Paulsen via Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> wrote: From: John Paulsen Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 10:06 AM To: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: Dry Pipe Valve to Wet Good Day Everyone! A question has come up regarding the practice of taking the clapper out of a dry pipe valve in order to convert the system from dry pipe to wet pipe. We have had local AHJ’s demand that the valve itself be changed to avoid confusion for the first responders, but I was wondering if anyone on the forum knew of a specific code reference that would prohibit removing the clapper and leaving the DPV in place? 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