I’d hope nothing is done that prevents use as even a non-designated area of refuge.
> On Nov 22, 2019, at 12:30, Nick Maneen via Sprinklerforum > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I hope then when you combine what Ed Kramer and David Blackwell provided > someone sees reason. > > Nick Maneen, SET > c 704.791.7789 > > From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 3:27 PM > To: Nick Maneen > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection > > Well, the building is 17 stories with two or more stairs on each level. So > there’s over 40 hose valves. It will end up costing way more than a hundred > bucks to satisfy the requirement they are proposing, regardless of the method > we choose. > > From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:01 PM > To: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection > > I have only been asked to do something around standpipes in the last three > years and both occasions they were in the path of egress. It seems to me > that if you are tucked into the corner and out of the way of normal travel, > someone is being a little over zealous with their interpretation. > > As far as your next course of action, you have options. I am all for > fighting the fight and standing up for yourself that these valves are outside > the path of egress, therefore the detection is not required. Then if you > discover you are talking to a wall, ask yourself if you would take a client > out and spend $100 on dinner to secure future relationships and work? Would > you spend $100 on this GC, roll your eyes at the inspector, and move on to > the next project? My view on this is completely determined on the dollar > amount spent. I can think of all kinds of different scenarios where I would > dig my heels in and not budge, but I don’t think this is one. We recently > gave a GC a case of escutcheons for free because the painter messed up the > outer ring on dozens of heads and instead of going for the back charge to > change them out, we went for the relationship. > > Nick Maneen, SET > c 704.791.7789 > > From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 2:40 PM > To: Nick Maneen > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection > > Agreed, but the hose valve protrudes more than 4”. And unless we’re the only > ones not privy to some kind of “micro hose valve” I’m pretty sure every > standpipe installation in existence would have this same issue. Which is why > I’m thinking there must be something I’m missing. > > -Kyle M > > From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:36 PM > To: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection > > Sorry for the incomplete email. It just went ahead and sent... > Anyway, in my experience, a piece of pipe on a floor flange under the > standpipe should work. It seems to follow the illustration David Blackwell > sent. > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 2:28 PM Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > wrote: > Nick, > > I wasn’t suggesting that bollards would be necessary, I was just comparing > them as an example of something that may be required to go along with a > sprinkler/standpipe system that typically would be provided “by others”. One > of my issues right now is that the GC is siding with the AHJ and just saying > “Yep, we need it, you need to provide it, no extra money.” > > The problem we have is that the hose valves protrude more than 4” from the > standpipe, so we’re being told it is required. But I’m pretty sure every hose > valve on every standpipe in existence does this, so how has this never been > an issue for us before? > > -Kyle M > > From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection > > I have been asked to turn the valves so they don't protrude further from the > wall than the standpipe does (leaving clearance for firefighter use) and run > the standpipe down to the floor so the cane can find the bottom of the pipe. > I have had an AHJ accept a piece of 1" that does from the bottom of the > standpipe to the cap on the 4" to act as the detection. I don't think > bollards would be required or at least they haven't been around here in North > Carolina yet. > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:40 PM Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum > <[email protected]> wrote: > All, > > I’m running into some issues on a project where the AHJ is asking for “Cane > Detection”. For those of you who may not be familiar with the term, the short > answer is that cane detection is required for objects that protrude into the > circulation path so that a blind/visually impaired person can detect the > presence of the object with his/her cane and therefore not bump into it. It’s > required for objects that protrude more than 4” from the wall, and are > located within a height range of 27”-80”; objects higher than 80” are above > the required headroom clearance, and objects lower than 27” are within the > “cane sweep” and thus will be detected. (Just Google “Cane Detection” for > more information) > > I understand the need for this, but am uncertain of all the requirements. > Here’s our situation: > > We don’t need the detection for the standpipe itself (or the drain) because > that continues through the floor and can be detected by the cane. However, > the hose valves protrude more than 4” from the standpipe, and are above 27”, > so we’re being told that we need it for the hose valves. So, I’ve got two > questions: > > 1. Is the code being applied the correct way? Have any of you run into > this and are the any exceptions for standpipes or life safety equipment? I’m > wondering how this hasn’t been a problem for us many times before if this is > the correct interpretation of the code. > > 2. If this IS the correct requirement, should the installation of cane > detection fall to the fire sprinkler subcontractor? I mean, we’re not > typically responsible for installing bollards to protect risers in warehouses > and similar. > > > I’m interested to hear the forum’s thoughts and experiences. Thanks for your > help. > > Kyle Montgomery > <image001.png> > Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. > 21605 N. Central Ave. > Phoenix, AZ 85024 > Direct: 623.580.7820 > Cell: 602.763.4736 > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > -- > Nick Maneen > > Estimator > > 2553 South Fayetteville Street > > Asheboro, NC 27205 > > P 336-625-2304 > > F 336-625-4649 > > C 704-791-7789 > > > > -- > Nick Maneen > > Estimator > > 2553 South Fayetteville Street > > Asheboro, NC 27205 > > P 336-625-2304 > > F 336-625-4649 > > C 704-791-7789 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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