I’d hope nothing is done that prevents use as even a non-designated area of 
refuge. 



> On Nov 22, 2019, at 12:30, Nick Maneen via Sprinklerforum 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I hope then when you combine what Ed Kramer and David Blackwell provided 
> someone sees reason.
>  
> Nick Maneen, SET 
> c 704.791.7789
>  
> From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 3:27 PM
> To: Nick Maneen
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection
>  
> Well, the building is 17 stories with two or more stairs on each level. So 
> there’s over 40 hose valves. It will end up costing way more than a hundred 
> bucks to satisfy the requirement they are proposing, regardless of the method 
> we choose.
>  
> From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:01 PM
> To: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection
>  
> I have only been asked to do something around standpipes in the last three 
> years and both occasions they were in the path of egress.  It seems to me 
> that if you are tucked into the corner and out of the way of normal travel, 
> someone is being a little over zealous with their interpretation. 
>  
> As far as your next course of action, you have options.  I am all for 
> fighting the fight and standing up for yourself that these valves are outside 
> the path of egress, therefore the detection is not required.  Then if you 
> discover you are talking to a wall, ask yourself if you would take a client 
> out and spend $100 on dinner to secure future relationships and work?  Would 
> you spend $100 on this GC, roll your eyes at the inspector, and move on to 
> the next project?  My view on this is completely determined on the dollar 
> amount spent.  I can think of all kinds of different scenarios where I would 
> dig my heels in and not budge, but I don’t think this is one.  We recently 
> gave a GC a case of escutcheons for free because the painter messed up the 
> outer ring on dozens of heads and instead of going for the back charge to 
> change them out, we went for the relationship. 
>  
> Nick Maneen, SET 
> c 704.791.7789
>  
> From: Kyle.Montgomery [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 2:40 PM
> To: Nick Maneen
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection
>  
> Agreed, but the hose valve protrudes more than 4”. And unless we’re the only 
> ones not privy to some kind of “micro hose valve” I’m pretty sure every 
> standpipe installation in existence would have this same issue. Which is why 
> I’m thinking there must be something I’m missing.
>  
> -Kyle M
>  
> From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:36 PM
> To: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection
>  
> Sorry for the incomplete email.  It just went ahead and sent...
> Anyway, in my experience, a piece of pipe on a floor flange under the 
> standpipe should work.  It seems to follow the illustration David Blackwell 
> sent.
>  
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 2:28 PM Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> Nick,
>  
> I wasn’t suggesting that bollards would be necessary, I was just comparing 
> them as an example of something that may be required to go along with a 
> sprinkler/standpipe system that typically would be provided “by others”. One 
> of my issues right now is that the GC is siding with the AHJ and just saying 
> “Yep, we need it, you need to provide it, no extra money.”
>  
> The problem we have is that the hose valves protrude more than 4” from the 
> standpipe, so we’re being told it is required. But I’m pretty sure every hose 
> valve on every standpipe in existence does this, so how has this never been 
> an issue for us before?
>  
> -Kyle M
>  
> From: Nick Maneen [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:19 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Cane Detection
>  
> I have been asked to turn the valves so they don't protrude further from the 
> wall than the standpipe does (leaving clearance for firefighter use) and run 
> the standpipe down to the floor so the cane can find the bottom of the pipe.  
> I have had an AHJ accept a piece of 1" that does from the bottom of the 
> standpipe to the cap on the 4" to act as the detection.  I don't think 
> bollards would be required or at least they haven't been around here in North 
> Carolina yet.  
>  
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 12:40 PM Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> All,
>  
> I’m running into some issues on a project where the AHJ is asking for “Cane 
> Detection”. For those of you who may not be familiar with the term, the short 
> answer is that cane detection is required for objects that protrude into the 
> circulation path so that a blind/visually impaired person can detect the 
> presence of the object with his/her cane and therefore not bump into it. It’s 
> required for objects that protrude more than 4” from the wall, and are 
> located within a height range of 27”-80”; objects higher than 80” are above 
> the required headroom clearance, and objects lower than 27” are within the 
> “cane sweep” and thus will be detected. (Just Google “Cane Detection” for 
> more information)
>  
> I understand the need for this, but am uncertain of all the requirements. 
> Here’s our situation:
>  
> We don’t need the detection for the standpipe itself (or the drain) because 
> that continues through the floor and can be detected by the cane. However, 
> the hose valves protrude more than 4” from the standpipe, and are above 27”, 
> so we’re being told that we need it for the hose valves. So, I’ve got two 
> questions:
>  
> 1.       Is the code being applied the correct way? Have any of you run into 
> this and are the any exceptions for standpipes or life safety equipment? I’m 
> wondering how this hasn’t been a problem for us many times before if this is 
> the correct interpretation of the code.
> 
> 2.       If this IS the correct requirement, should the installation of cane 
> detection fall to the fire sprinkler subcontractor? I mean, we’re not 
> typically responsible for installing bollards to protect risers in warehouses 
> and similar.
> 
>  
> I’m interested to hear the forum’s thoughts and experiences. Thanks for your 
> help.
>  
> Kyle Montgomery
>  <image001.png>
> Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
> 21605 N. Central Ave.
> Phoenix, AZ 85024
> Direct: 623.580.7820
> Cell: 602.763.4736
> [email protected]
>  
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> 
>  
> --
> Nick Maneen
> 
> Estimator
> 
> 2553 South Fayetteville Street
> 
> Asheboro, NC 27205
> 
> P 336-625-2304
> 
> F 336-625-4649
> 
> C 704-791-7789
> 
> 
>  
> --
> Nick Maneen
> 
> Estimator
> 
> 2553 South Fayetteville Street
> 
> Asheboro, NC 27205
> 
> P 336-625-2304
> 
> F 336-625-4649
> 
> C 704-791-7789
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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