The elephant in the corner is the required containment if there is that 
building code requirement. How that is accomplished is a function of the fire 
protection application rate. There could be a pretty big oops going on.

> On Feb 17, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum 
> <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
> 
> Understood.  I wasn’t sure if this was something that got dumped on you as it 
> seems that if the issue has the word “fire” in it, it is assumed to be a fire 
> protection issue.  Sometimes it’s hard to convince others who just don’t know 
> any better that we don’t design, specify or install fire places, fire trucks, 
> fire stops, fire doors, fire dampers, etc., etc.. 
>  
> A 3-hour fire separation requirement under these conditions, wow! 
>  
> Thanks for the kind words on that article.  It was fun to write but difficult 
> in trying to figure out how to jam so much information into a limited number 
> of words.  It was the tip of the iceberg so to speak when it comes to dealing 
> with special hazard conditions.
>  
> Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
> craig.pr...@jacobs.com <mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com 
> <http://www.jacobs.com/>
> 1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
>  
> From: Vince Sabolik <vi...@wtfp.net> 
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2020 1:32 PM
> To: Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com>; 
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Anybody hit this wall?
>  
> Thanks, Craig -
> 
> First, I'm not going to consult here; I avoid consulting for a variety of 
> reasons. 
> I'm going to do this the old fashioned way and provide a design as specified 
> by the insurance underwriter.
> 
> However, to refresh my knowledge of the process I read your article from 
> Sprinkler Age,  June 2017 
> "Surround and Drown" before I went to the meeting. Thanks for a great read!
> 
> There is an underwriter available here, but the owner indicated that he was 
> told by the architect that
> he had to furnish the 3 hour wall described. I have seen this once, maybe 
> twice in a very long career, hence
> my curiosity of the rating requirement. 
> 
> Thank you for the article and response.
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/17/2020 1:09 PM, Prahl, Craig/GVL wrote:
> When dealing with separations and H occupancies, there are numerous factors 
> involved when determining separation requirements.  There is not a simple, 
> short yes or no to your question.  H4 typically doesn’t automatically require 
> a fire rated separation just because it’s an H occupancy.  
>  
> Per the Bldg/Fire codes, S-2 doesn’t require sprinklers, it’s assumed to be a 
> low hazard storage.  H4 is typically health hazards like toxics, highly 
> toxics, corrosives.  No ignitables under H-4, they’d be H2 or H3.  But you 
> could still have ignitables present, just under the Max. Allowable 
> quantities.  If you’re responsible for determining design criteria you should 
> get a chemical inventory.  Also, if the H4 occupancy is driven by corrosives, 
> there is a high likelihood that you could have plastic containers like totes 
> or drums.  Might be good to ask about that and if they plan to store any 
> containers in the H4 area as it could affect the sprinkler design criteria.  
>  
> If there’s an architect involved I’d ask them about the fire rating of the 
> separation wall especially if you have to penetrate it and fire stop your 
> penetrations.  
>  
> Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
> craig.pr...@jacobs.com <mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com>| www.jacobs.com 
> <http://www.jacobs.com/>
> 1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Vince 
> Sabolik via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2020 11:54 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
> Cc: Vince Sabolik <vi...@wtfp.net> <mailto:vi...@wtfp.net>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Anybody hit this wall?
>  
> Good morning Forum -
> 
> This is a new one on me. 
> 
> A building with two Use Groups, H4, S2 is separated by a wall and is fully 
> sprinklered
> per NFPA.
> 
> Does the separating wall need to be rated?
> 
> 
> -- 
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> Vince Sabolik
>  
> 
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> -- 
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> 11351 Pearl Road /  Suite 101
> Strongsville, Ohio 44136 
> Phone 440 238-4800 Fax 440 238-4876 Cell 440 724-7601
> 
> Vince Sabolik
> 
> 
> NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged 
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