I wouldn't install a non-conforming component no matter who said they'd take liability. For me to install it knowing it's not right still can still result in some level of liability no matter how much I might protest. Unless the manufacturer responsible for the listing of the product issues a directive stating that it can be installed in this alternative manner and provides the specific installation guidelines, then and only then would I install it.
Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | [email protected] | www.jacobs.com 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 10:29 AM To: [email protected] Cc: John Denhardt <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Window Sprinklers Agree 100%. Follow the Listing - period. If an architect or an engineer wants to violate the Listing, let them provide direction and assume all liability. Thanks, John John August Denhardt, PE *Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services* *American Fire Sprinkler Association* m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: firesprinkler.org <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm21I5yed8w$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm20u4MgBaA$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm23HmfHPkg$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm231pZU61g$ > *Our members are at the heart of everything we do.* *AFSA Summer Sale!* For a limited time only, AFSA is offering members up to 50% off its on-demand recorded webinars! Featuring the most sought-after thought leaders, AFSA On-Demand offers a superior learning experience with ability to earn CEU and CPD credits anytime, anywhere. Visit https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.firesprinkler.org/ondemand__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm22r8lfM0g$ to learn more. On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:26 AM Joe Burtell via Sprinklerforum < [email protected]> wrote: > Here is how I see it. All manufacturers prohibit horizontal mullions. > My guess is they failed testing when horizontal millions were present. > The building code requires the windows to be protected with listed sprinklers. > Even if I did put the additional window sprinkler below the horizontal > million, it is now void of it's listing which the building code and > NFPA required to be listed for such use. The last part is the > liability as a small contractor. The architect does not want to spend > the money to put in the proper glass. > > Best regards, > > *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* > > [image: Burtell Fire_Small] > > Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* > > 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 > > Email: [email protected] > > Web Site: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.burtellfire.com__;!!B5cixuoO7lt > Teg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm23_OhSm2w > $ > > *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of > low price is forgotten.**”* > > *NOTICE:* The information contained in this e-mail transmission is > intended only for use of the individual or entity named above. This > e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail > transmissions or other information attached to it, may contain > confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not > the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, > copying or other use of this transmission or any of the information > contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If > you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please > immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the > original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or > saving it in any manner. Thank you. > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 8:15 AM å... .... <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Your situation is not fully described for me to make a > > higher-quality response. > > I have however, seen instances where 1). horizontal mullions and yes, 2). > > inappropriate orientation and location of window sprinklers causes > > the downfalling water to > > in the case of the first, jet off the plane of the window pane, > > leaving lower sections starkly unwetted. > > in the case of the second, water boucing off the pane and leaving > > the primary window pane underprotected and sections below the > > horizontal mullion direly so. > > > > Having said that... the words of Peter Drucker come to mind "nothing > is > > so useless as to do something that is not needed." > > Depending upon where the windows are located: > > A. is the chance of a fire higher than required to demand the window > > sprinklers in the first place? > > This is not a trivial question. It is for this very reason > > we do not install sprinkles in some bathrooms and some closets... > > The answer requires good judgment, which is mannah from > > heaven, job justification and exercise of the brain from the mundane > black-&-white > > Code regurgitation. > > B. Are there window sprinklers on both sides of the window > > barrier, which could rationalize not installing window sprinklers > > when combined > with > > reasoning in A. > > > > Consideration from different angles: > > Forest-for-the trees... as well as > > the devil-is-in-the-details... > > > > Good luck, and thanks for sharing your situation Joe! > > Scot Deal > > Excelsior Risk & Fire Engineering > > gms: + 420 606 872 129 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cg > i/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKX > pHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm21qyFP-Ig$ > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!UuIYmcxSmu2w8xKXpHz583xsDrCUbvCkCPW2PGZiuy2l6TF4KXXqS8dSm21qyFP-Ig$ ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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