If interested, Internation Building Code has guidance for “children’s indoor play structures”, in the 2018 IBC, look at section 424. “Fire treated” doesn’t mean non-combustible.
CHAPTER 4 SPECIAL DETAILED REQUIREMENTS BASED ON OCCUPANCY AND USE - 2018 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE (IBC)<https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2018P6/chapter-4-special-detailed-requirements-based-on-occupancy-and-use#IBC2018P6_Ch04_Sec424> Andrew Steele, From: Mike Stewart <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 2:14 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: Jump Park You don't often get email from [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> I’ve heard this argument before…”Trampolines are plastic and therefore should be treated as such.” However, typical fire sprinkler designers and AHJ’s are unaware that a lot of trampolines and even trampoline pits contain flame retardants. People such as Trampoline Parks LLC use fire retardants in their vinyl wrap as well as well as in their safety nets and trampoline pads. And while we are on the subject, even a lot of the trampoline pits that contain foam cubes are treated with flame retardants as well. Don’t be like most of the know it all, knuckle dragging, and mentally challenged individuals in the industry and go ahead and have the owner spend the $500-$750 and have a fire protection engineer make a determination. Oh…and that same engineer probably has a heck of a lot of more insurance to back his/her decision on what is truly needed. Mike Stewart Dog Walker On Nov 13, 2024, at 1:56 PM, Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Several years ago I did a large indoor playground (4000+ sqft). They had some larger pieces of equipment both wood and plastic. There were a couple of spaces that were actually storage rooms. The rooms got sprinklers. A lot of the unenclosed spaces didn’t because they were places kids would be playing, but were considered obstructions. Sprinklers in those spaces could be easily damaged by the kids. We came to a compromise between myself (PE), the AHJ and the tenant on a system design. That may be the approach you need to take I am not going to post details of the final solution on a public forum for liability reasons. Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Nov 13, 2024 at 1:21 PM, <Craig Prahl<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Yes, everything is plastic. But it also has to meet specific smoke spread and heat release ratings along with other construction requirements. The Building code defines the requirements for the materials used in these playgrounds. But note, this section is only applicable based on the defined dimensions. Regarding fire sprinklers, the IBC states the following: [F] 424.3 Fire protection. Children’s play structures shall be provided with the same level of approved fire suppression and detection devices required for other structures in the same occupancy. So, notice the word “approved” in that sentence? That means that the proposed protection scheme is to be approved by the AHJ. The big problem with the way the sentence is structured is that it doesn’t say one way or another whether you should install sprinklers below obstructions within the playground array like you would elsewhere. So as the sprinkler designer, ask for vendor data on the assembly and see how it aligns with the code requirements. Then propose your design to the AHJ based on the basis of design. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – EV, AM, DC, Special Hazards [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2024 9:49 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [External]Re: Jump Park I don’t want to be the guy. But I’m guessing someone is going to jump in (pun intended) and say “Hey, is that jungle gym made out of plastic?” And then question whether the overhead system is even appropriate for this use. -Kyle Montgomery Innocent Bystander From: Mike Stewart <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2024 11:59 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [External][Sprinklerforum] Re: Jump Park You don't often get email from [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Learn why this is important<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!HVY2RnajYGKvxrSDPuUyotfDgWjJdDPs_fv1R5qWsjWf4uUY3YduzykXCbrJfoz7U__Y9tLa85f1i1M7auLT8NWJ$> NFPA 13 is not entirely clear about this because obviously a trampoline should not be compared to a conference room table. Anytime an AHJ brings something like this up and NFPA 13 is not clear about it that’s when I hire a FPE to take a look at it and make an interpretation. This is just so the local AHJ has something to protect them just in case there is something such as a fire. Mike Stewart Dog Walker On Nov 12, 2024, at 1:28 PM, Brett Peters <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: That's a tough one, is it actually fixed in place? If not it could be considered as a non combustible obstruction, not fixed in place, thus not requiring sprinklers below - but that might be a stretch. NFPA 13, 2019 9.5.5.3.2* Sprinklers shall not be required under obstructions that are not fixed in place, such as conference tables. The size at which obstructions become too large to ignore is typically 4 ft (1.2 m). This width is reduced in Chapters 13 and 14 for CMSA and ESFR sprinklers. Paragraph 9.5.5.3.2 recognizes that some obstructions larger than 4 ft (1.2 m), for example, a conference table, are not fixed in place and are not likely to have any significant combustibles located beneath them. In such cases, additional sprinklers are not needed below the obstruction. Thanks Brett Peters General Manager Installation & Design Proudline Fire Protection Services Ltd. [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 780 490 7602 office ext 202 780 490 7605 fax 780 777 0568 cell 780 718 2676 24h Visit us at www.proudline.ca<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.proudline.ca/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!HVY2RnajYGKvxrSDPuUyotfDgWjJdDPs_fv1R5qWsjWf4uUY3YduzykXCbrJfoz7U__Y9tLa85f1i1M7ap5mrr_O$> Proudline now offers ULc listed monitoring services, please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> for more information [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wRo6r0eNDUWx8YR-4XJLvwcnouQn_xEZH_HIb4jDbepWtON2RWC-ekzvZHKtncFOQqPcNQfzM] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yJVI287VPLDWiW9maE2Np3U4CdszCY9deeyaLl8DM90wlBd7pnuOZV9U-swv-7gWN_24py6vo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wlGmqj6Ja06DKOIMLPvEE8B2W8fT_TPPA3w-4JfqygLq9n77ECSni09YLIVICXJYzWo4Z0PjU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zEgPbs279KVEfWIpIiWNLel8zAlcloW9dNXGLTaE1cMz88CRkmg17fju5BQB_iIzhWK20DUL8] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4z7J0kfmSGA8jKvDK0pTqW3KQlc5v-tYcWosmy5W7pdok462Gzu_9Ft7UK9oJUWDT1DzhQ4hUU] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wTVHoTZxkppBoWSCTFnGLgGTq0apivi8sNvWPyBsloO0mmy8ZYu4Ax854jo7ihTMFyeYeOceg] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4xwBWEOX5v9mpza4Jqf9lOKSwThBNvyIO7Rl-Cxo7NRiV7p70C0f1biwbh44Y-iIA5GcmD1MCo] [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4yPfO1HdtbQPYiKlYE38cwc88ABhX7xN1nh0fCK5LjFXjKplJggk3Xn6_XypmtMWyADKR7ZRGk] On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 11:09 AM Caleb Brogan <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hello, We have an indoor jump park where they put in a jungle gym with the netting all the way around it, the padded walkways are 4’ wide exactly. There are 2 slides on it, one 8’ wide and one 5’ wide. There is ceiling protection above it currently, has anyone put sprinklers anywhere down inside of these? Having a hard time finding much information on it other than “if the local AHJ requires it”, but the local AHJ is worried, not mandating it so looking for a little direction. Thanks, Caleb Caleb Brogan | Sprinkler Systems Designer OH# 54-25-4815 & NICET# 147230 KOORSEN FIRE & SECURITY 727 Manor Park Dr, Columbus, OH 43228 P 614.853.5665 | Ext. 6512 | M 614.867.6791 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.koorsen.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.koorsen.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!HVY2RnajYGKvxrSDPuUyotfDgWjJdDPs_fv1R5qWsjWf4uUY3YduzykXCbrJfoz7U__Y9tLa85f1i1M7ajhcXCjO$> 24x7x365 Service: 614.878.2228 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!HVY2RnajYGKvxrSDPuUyotfDgWjJdDPs_fv1R5qWsjWf4uUY3YduzykXCbrJfoz7U__Y9tLa85f1i1M7anPTypKt$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!HVY2RnajYGKvxrSDPuUyotfDgWjJdDPs_fv1R5qWsjWf4uUY3YduzykXCbrJfoz7U__Y9tLa85f1i1M7anPTypKt$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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