Hi Ronan,
My answers:
1. Spyder is MIT licensed, not GPL (as your last email seems to imply).
2. Spyder doesn't need to be re-licensed GPL just because it depends on
PyQt (4 or 5). This has been asked before to Phil Thompson (PyQt
author), and he answered that there are no issues with other licenses.
Please read this thread for his answer:
https://riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2014-February/033843.html
3. Closed source plugins could be a problem in the future. However, if
companies want to support them, then they can help us to fix our PySide
support.
So, even if we stopped to *officially* support PySide (although Spyder
can still be used with it if PyQt is not found), there's no need to
relicense it as a GPL project because we are using a GPL-compatible license.
Lastly, I reached the link I referenced before (on the Python wiki) from
the Riberbank website itself (the company behind PyQt). That's why I
brought it up to this discussion, and why I consider it Riberbank
official postiion on this matter.
Cheers,
Carlos
El 21/03/16 a las 20:16, Ronan Paixão escribió:
I started this conversation in the half-wrong assumption that Spyder
should change license if dropping PySide.
The assumption was half-wrong because Spyder may be licensed as
whatever the devs want. I personally like it being BSD, so that I can
also contribute to it (I don't much like the GPL anymore). However, if
using the GPL version of PyQt (which most of us are doing, unless
someone out there has a commercial license to PyQt), then Spyder must
be *distributed *under the GPL to comply with is as a derivative work.
That means that if people write closed-source plugins, they cannot
distribute them outside their own organization unless they have a
commercial license to PyQt or distribute the whole package as GPL.
With PySide support that was not a concern, since PySide is LGPL.
Also, Carlos is right. He can't deal with PySide's quirks alone.
Either someone else steps up to support PySide or we all just hope
PySide*2* <https://github.com/PySide/pyside2> gets its things together
(it does seem to have some support for Qt5, contrary to popular belief).
2016-03-21 21:49 GMT-03:00 <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Isn't this all independent of Spyder? Spyder doesn't bundle PyQt,
AFAIK. And if you distribute PyQt not as GPL, then you need a
commercial license whether it include Spyder or something else.
Having spyder as BSD allows free sharing of related code among
python packages which are dominantly BSD compatible in the
scientific area.
Josef
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Ronan Paixão
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
A quote from the GPL FAQ
<http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#WhatDoesCompatMean>:
All GNU GPL versions permit such combinations privately;
they also permit distribution of such combinations
provided the combination is released under the same GNU
GPL version. The other license is compatible with the GPL
if it permits this too.
I interpret this to mean: you must license the combination as
GPL. So, Spyder itself can be developed in another license,
but if used in conjunction with PyQt, any *distribution *must
be done as GPL. Non-open plugins can be used privately (but
not distributed as closed). I don't really thinkg there's much
difference between PyQt4 and PyQt5 GPL licensing. I don't see
exceptions either (the non-Commercial exception in the wiki is
only for Qt 2.3.0 on Windows).
I wouldn't take a page from the Python wiki (not from
Riverbank) as authoritative on the matter. The Riverbank
license FAQ
<https://www.riverbankcomputing.com/commercial/license-faq>
refers pretty clearly to the GPL FAQ above.
2016-03-21 10:15 GMT-03:00 Carlos Córdoba
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
@Anatoly: If you want to use your closed source plugins
with Spyder, please help us to fix our PySide support,
that's all. I said this to you several times, I don't know
why you make me to repeat it: PySide support is not gone,
it just will have to come from the community. We don't
have time to support three different Python Qt bindings
(specially one that it's not ready for Qt5), so we're
relying on the community for the least used one.
@Ghislain: You're referencing the *commercial* section of
the PyQt licensing page, not the open source one. The wiki
page I cited before is quite clear about the licenses
allowed for projects that depend on PyQt, and it doesn't
make a distinction between PyQt4 and PyQt5. Please stop
spreading FUD.
Cheers,
Carlos
El 21/03/16 a las 06:09, Ghislain Vaillant escribió:
Quoting the Riverbank FAQ [1]:
Q.
What are the implications of using the GPL version of PyQt?
A.
To understand your obligations when using GPL code with
your application see the GPL FAQ
<http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html>.
[1] https://www.riverbankcomputing.com/commercial/license-faq
So, using PyQt5 makes you abide to the GPL (v3). A
release of Spyder which depends on PyQt5 (which is GPL)
would then be considered a combined work and need to be
licensed under the GPL too.
The situation was different with PyQt4, because of the
added exceptions Carlos is referring to. However, these
are absent in PyQt5.
Ghis
Le lundi 21 mars 2016 02:37:55 UTC, Carlos Córdoba a écrit :
Hi,
Nop, that's not true. The only requirement imposed by
PyQt to open source projects depending on it is that
their licenses be compatible with the GPL. This is
clearly mentioned in the PyQt wiki:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/PyQt/PyQtLicensing
Cheers,
Carlos
El 20/03/16 a las 20:14, Ronan Paixão escribió:
Have you considered the licensing implications? PyQt
is GPL, and actually *depending* on it (instead of
using it as one of two possible options) would
require Spyder itself to be released as GPL,
wouldn't it?
2015-12-29 1:55 GMT-02:00 Carlos Córdoba
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
Hi all,
Since today, we officially stopped to support
PySide in the Spyder master branch (i.e. in the
future Spyder 3.0, Spyder 2.3 still works fine
with it though). This means that:
1. If PySide is found in your system, and PyQt5
nor PyQt4 are installed, Spyder will try to use
it. But at the moment, our master branch has
several crashes with PySide that we don't plan
to solve (at least not me, other core developers
have shown interest in doing that but nothing
has happened so far :-).
2. We're not going to solve more bugs related to
PySide in the future (again, at least not me :-)
3. Support for it will have to come from the
community.
The reasons for taking this decision are
explained in the link referenced by Anatoly, in
case someone wants to know them. Nobody is
getting paid to support only PyQt (4 or 5). It
was just a pragmatic decision based on the
amount of time the development team has to
support several Python Qt bindings. Given that
we're now supporting PyQt5 (and that PyQt5 is
going to be our default choice for Spyder 3.0),
we don't have time to support both PyQt4 and
PySide. And because of the uncertainty of
PySide's future, we decided to not support it
anymore.
Cheers,
Carlos
El 28/12/15 a las 18:04, anatoly techtonik escribió:
https://github.com/spyder-ide/spyder/pull/2886
Hey guys, where is the discussion about that?
I am just curios - does anybody is getting paid
to make Spyder work only with PyQt4?
Yes. PySide needs more companies interested
in this binding to support this initiative, but the
project is far from being dead.
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