Is it legally possible for a customer to separately contract away a right that the license otherwise affords them, such as the GPL right to demand source code and then turn around and distribute that source code?
I have to wonder if it’s possible in the US. It seems like it shouldn’t be, but in principle, in the prevailing theme of Anglo-American jurisprudence, it’s possible to contract away pretty much anything, no matter how adverse to one’s interests, so long as it is done “freely”. — Sent from mobile, with due apologies for brevity and errors. > On Feb 10, 2022, at 2:37 AM, Henning Westerholt <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello, > > just to add to the discussion: > > Please have a look to the GPLv2 FAQ, many topics you’ve raised are discussed > there https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html > You should really consult a lawyer for this specific questions > > Regarding the licence of the configuration (native script vs. KEMI) – my > understanding would be that a native Kamailio cfg script would be independent > of GPL as its interpreted (and practically the customer gets the “source > code” anyway). But KEMI LUA code that is pre-compiled would fall under the > GPL, so the customer has a right to get the source code for it. Compare e.g., > to this: > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL > > Cheers, > > Henning > > -- > Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/ > Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com > > From: sr-users <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Olle E. > Johansson > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:13 AM > To: Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine > > Hi Seven! > Note that many of these questions open a legal discussion that has been going > on for many years. I base my answers on what I know, which may not be the > full truth. Regardless, I have been involved in these kind of discussions for > almost 30 years of working in open source. > > First, note that there are two kind of situations to observe. One is when > your application is executing in a system. The other is the license of the > written source code files. > > Secondly, license and copyright are two different things. You always have the > copyright to your source code. > > In Kamailio there are source code files that have a different license than > the rest of the files. That means that if you copy that source code and > create a new product that license applies. > > Kamailio as a whole is released under GPL version 2. When you run Kamailio in > your server, that license applies to it all, regardless of the license of > various source code files. > > Also note that I base this discussion on a delivery of a system to a > customer. When you run Kamailio as a service you do not deliver (according to > GPL v2) and the customer doesn’t have the same rights to the source. > > Also note that (as other persons has pointed out) that it’s the recipient of > the binaries that has the rights, not the world. If I am not your customer, I > can’t demand the source code according to the GPL. The customer that receives > the code has the right to do whatever they want with it - like publishing the > source on GitHub for the world to enjoy. > > > > > 10 feb. 2022 kl. 00:16 skrev Seven Du <[email protected]>: > > I have some questions on this, e.g. on Kamailio: > > 1. The core and some modules is GPL. I packaged that without change, and sell > to a customer. and when the customer asks for source, I told him to download > from the kamailio website, since I didn't change anything. Is that correct? > How you distribute the source code to the customer is irrelevant here. Note > that if you end up having to provide it on a floppy disk or a USB stick, you > can charge for that according to the GPL :-) > > > 2. I can also host the source on my own website, with some more helper > scripts for building and packaging. That should be better? > I can’t judge if it’s better or worse, it has very little relevance to with > the license. Just make sure that you include the signatures made by the > Kamailio team so the customer can trace it back to the source and make sure > there’s no changes. > > > > 3. I write a new module, 100% code wrote from scratch, just follow the module > guidelines or example code to expose/add hooks to core, dynamically loaded > into kamailio. Do I need to use GPL or can it be any license or even closed > source? can I sell the standalone module in binary? > Your source code has to be licensed in a license that can end up being > compatible with GPL. You can not have a commercial license on it, since when > executing it as part of Kamailio, GPL applies. > Since your module ends up being GPL while running in a system you deliver for > a fee or for free to your customer, your customers has a right to the source > code. > > > > > 4. my module still should be GPL since I have to call GPL code in kamailio > source, e.g. string functions in core. or maybe it's ok if string functions > in kamailio core is BSD? > When executing ALL of Kamailio is GPL, including all linked modules. > > > > 5. If my module link to a 3rd party lib (e.g. libclosed-source.so or > libclosed-source.a I think there's no difference?) which is not open source > (but free to sell), can I sell it w/o the source of libclosed-source ? > Linking means that you execute in the same processes and according to most > this means that GPL applies. That’s why we have a lot of protocols where most > people think that GPL does not apply, even though some people want to discuss > that. In my personal view it’s ok to write commercial software that > communicates over RPC or by using the http_client with Kamailio. > > In Asterisk, the license specially permits this use of the various Asterisk > protocols since there was discussions. Most Asterisk developers believed it > wasn’t necessary and that GPL did not apply when using protocol based API’s. > But nevertheless, just to avoid discussions, this was clarified in the > license. > > > 6. If answer to 5 is yes, I can write my own libclosed-source and sell with > whatever license? > You can, but if it links to Kamailio in run-time, then it will at that point > become GPL licensed regardless of what you have written. That’s why many > companies stay away from GPL, especially libraries that are licensed with > GPL, because it can affect your own licenses. > > > > 7. Regards to KEMI, if I write routing scripts with Lua (compiled with luac) > and sell to a customer, should I open source the Lua code? The Lua code calls > Kamailio core functions which might be GPL. > That is an interesting question which I’m not ready to answer. I think the > intention of the Kamailio dev team is that your code should not be affected > by GPL, but we may want to clarify that. > > If you write a regular configuration script I would personally clearly think > you have the rights to that. The idea with KEMI was to introduce modern ways > of writing configuration scripts. > > > > Thanks. I don't mean to violate the GPL, just want to be clear and easier to > understand the license. > Always good to start the day with a GPL discussion :-) > > Cheers, > /O > > > > On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:05 PM Henning Westerholt <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > > (just to add the obvious disclaimer that this is not legal advice, I am not a > lawyer). > > > [Would it be ok] if it were [using] a standalone service to which Kamailio > > interfaced using very narrowly confined and general-purpose communication > > channels? > > I do not think there is a problem regarding to the GPL in this case. > Interfacing over SIP/HTTP/RPC/XMLRPC or other standard mechanism to a > dedicated process would not establish a close coupling between Kamailio and > the other code. > > > I think it's correct. e.g. if you use evapi or http to talk to your service > you don't have to open source your service code. > > Cheers, > > Henning > > -- > Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/ > Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: sr-users <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alex > Balashov > Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2022 1:50 PM > To: Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine > > > > On Feb 9, 2022, at 7:46 AM, Henning Westerholt <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> If modules are designed to run linked together in a shared address space, > >> that almost surely means combining them into one program.” > > > > This is exactly what applies to Kamailio due to the core and module > > architecture. The core and modules also share common data structures and > > memory segments. > > I see. So, practically, the only way a custom module could be considered > meaningfully separate according to these criteria is if it were a standalone > service to which Kamailio interfaced using very narrowly confined and > general-purpose communication channels? > > — Alex > > -- > Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC > > Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) > Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ > > > __________________________________________________________ > Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions > * [email protected] > Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the > sender! > Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe: > * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users > __________________________________________________________ > Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions > * [email protected] > Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the > sender! > Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe: > * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users > > > -- > About: http://about.me/dujinfang > Blog: http://www.dujinfang.com > Proj: http://www.freeswitch.org.cn > __________________________________________________________ > Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions > * [email protected] > Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the > sender! > Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe: > * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users > > __________________________________________________________ > Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions > * [email protected] > Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the > sender! > Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe: > * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users
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