That is the way I think of it. Boilers are copper (in gauge 0/1), all
fittings are bronze. 

Terry Griner
387-0902 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Wade
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:49 PM
To: Small-scale live steam discussions
Subject: [SSLiveSteam] bronzes

At 01:38 PM 11/29/06 -0600, you wrote:
>There's been discussion about bronze components not standing up to live
steam.

     There is a discussion about BRASS components not standing up to
live steam.

>The problem Is the bronze being for brazed on connections are of 
>unknown
composition.  The bronze that should be used is an alloy identified as
C92300.

     This is not necessarily the case.  This alloy certainly CAN be used
but it is by far not the only one.  If it can be said about any bronze
that one "should" be used it would be C510 phosphor bronze (now CDA5100)
and there are specific reasons for this which pertain directly to live
steam use.  510 is a very tough alloy and although it solders like pure
copper it will take and hold fine threads as well as mild steel.  Any of
us who have tried to thread copper know how problematic that can be,
even with care, sharp taps, and a good tapping fluid.
     The drawbacks of C5100 are that it's very tough and can turn drill
bits blue at typical drilling speeds, and it has been difficult to find
and buy in small quantites depending upon your local resources althought
the on-line metals sites are now taking care of that.  Although it's
unnescessarily tough and hard for making fittings (valves, gauges, etc)
it makes great bushings, stays, and studs.  The fact is thought that
there are dozens of bronzes which can be used, 92300 among them, all of
which will perform without a noticeable difference.

>This indicates that brass with less than 15% zinc isn't a problem - 
>Steve

     I disagree with this approach because I think this creates a
technical slippery slope (which US Ga1 live steamers seem to like)
whereupon just about anything (like soft solder for boilers) can somehow
be justified as being "OK."
    My feeling is once you start telling people "a 15% brass is OK" the
15% will be lost in the shuffle and pretty soon "brass" will be OK, . .
. and it's not OK, at least I don't feel that it's OK to teach that it's
OK.
It's also my guess that tryng to find a brass with less than 15% zinc
might be as difficult if not more so than finding the equivalent bronze
so why not just get the bronze.
     There is a mind-boggling number of "brasses" and "bronzes" many of
which are seperated by only a tiny percentile lead or tin.  A quick
check of alloys shows that metals classified as true bronzes contain
between 0% and 8% zinc, with the majority being around 4% or less and
this is a far cry from 15% zinc.  If we accept that our specification
for boiler materials is for "bronze", then I think we should start at
the bottom, making 0% zinc metal the most desireable and work up from
there with each successively higher % of zinc being thought of as less
acceptable with a 15% brass being least acceptable of all.


Regards,
Harry Wade
Nashville  Tennessee

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