On Mar 19, 2026, at 12:40 pm, Miroslav Lachman <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 19/03/2026 14:42, Paul Mather wrote:
>> On Mar 19, 2026, at 7:29 am, Miroslav Lachman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>> First and most important (at least for me) would be a clear separation of 
>>> base system upgrades from 3rd packages, without having to enter 
>>> 40-character-long arguments.
>> The "pkg" command allows you to define aliases in pkg.conf.  So, if you 
>> wanted to save on typing, you could, say, define "base-upgrade" and 
>> "ports-upgrade" aliases to restrict "pkg upgrade" to just the appropriate 
>> repositories.
> 
> Yes, and everyone will fix it locally, each in their own way, so every 
> computer will have a different command to achieve the same result. What an 
> amazing time we live in.

\begin{sarcasm}

Actually, they won't each fix it in their own way.  They'll recognise the 
brilliance of my solution and all fix it that way. :-)

\end{sarcasm}

Choices, and the freedom to choose your own solution is amazing.  But, I 
acknowledge that pkgbase is an evolving solution, which is why it is just a 
technology preview in 15.  AFAIK, the current solution is not set in stone.  
Having it as a technology preview promotes more widespread testing, and 
exposing it to more people allows problems to surface and solutions to be 
explored and the system improved.  That's what I thought happened here: someone 
asked a question on a mailing list and so I offered an answer.  I thought 
that's what the mailing lists are for?  I suppose the alternative is to say, 
"Wait for the FreeBSD developers to solve this, even though you can work around 
it yourself if it's that big a problem for you."

Coming back to choice: if you are unhappy with pkgbase and the integrity of 
your base OS, you don't even have to jump on the pkgbase merry-go-round right 
now.  You could stick with ye olde src-based upgrade mechanism that has been 
around since I first started using FreeBSD back in the 3.5 days.  (That's what 
I'm doing right now on a 15-STABLE system.)  When Goldilocks determines that 
pkgbase is "just right" you can then make the jump. :-)

Understand your risk and orient your solution accordingly.


> I still don't think it's a good idea to combine base system updates and 
> package upgrades into a single command by default. Now even something as 
> simple as patch level security base update can completely break user's 
> desktop if package upgrade runs at the same time and the repository happens 
> to be missing such important packages as Firefox, Thunderbird, KDE / Plasma, 
> etc.
> (missing packages that pkg upgrade then uninstalls from the local machine — I 
> see this problem far too often)


In my experience, that happened before pkgbase.  Having reliable update and 
rollback procedures is important.

Cheers,

Paul.


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