On Aug 21, 2011, at 04:24, Kevin Smith wrote:

> I've been thinking about 296, and I'm still not happy with this
> 'unlock on any presence even if it's irrelevant' thing.
> 
> My preference is to say something like:
> SHOULD (or MUST) unlock on a change of availability (available/FFC <>
> Away/NA <> DND <> unavailable) and MAY unlock on other changes.
> 
> The current text, and Matt's preference is:
> MUST unlock on ... any <presence/> update.
> 

My preference is based on experience.  Not everyone has interpreted the use of 
<show/> the way we do.

However, things did get slightly clearer between RFC 3921 and RFC 6121.  As 
implementations are updated, this will hopefully be less of a problem.

If we do make a change, it MUST also take <priority/> changes into account.  
But at that point, is a client starting to reproduce some of the server's own 
routing rules?  Maybe unlocking on any presence update (which, according to RFC 
6121 § 4.4.1, SHOULD only to be signal a change in availability) is more 
appropriate.

> My argument is that unlocking on all presence will result in many
> messages being sent to the bare JID unnecessarily, which creates a bad
> experience for any users of multiple concurrent sessions and is
> exasperated by the clients putting extra details into their presence .
> 

It's not just clients putting extra details in.  There are a number of gateways 
into XMPP, and not all of them change show.  If I recall correctly, this 
behavior is often exhibited if the other end is MS Lync (SIP-like) or IBM 
SameTime (SIMPLE).  Note that both have XMPP server-to-server connectors.

> Matt's argument is that there exists a client that encourages people
> to never change availability and that it's more important to address
> this case.

I guess I don't say more important, but that we be cognizant these clients (and 
gateways).

Also, a re-read of RFC 6121 seems to lead to a broader rule.

> 
> My suggestion to resolve this is to add a 'requirements' section to
> the start of XEP-0296 explaining what the objectives are. If we can
> agree on objectives, the rest should flow out sensibly.

I've been thinking of what to put there.  I am open to suggestions, but it MUST 
to take the existing reality into account.


- m&m
<http://goo.gl/voEzk>

Reply via email to