On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 16:08, Tedd Sterr <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2020-03-18?p=h#2020-03-18-d77f2f5c2e5ea3ba > > *1) Roll Call* > Present: Daniel, Georg, Jonas, Zash > Apologies: Dave > > *2) Agenda Bashing* > Nothing to add. > > *3) Editor's Update* > * ProtoXEP: Reminders > * Expired calls: CFE on XEP-0184 > * Calls in progress: None > > *4a) Advance XEP-0184 (Message Delivery Receipts)* - > https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0184.html > Georg considers some of the feedback to be 'very important' - Jonas agrees. > Daniel is torn - it does what it's supposed to do, and is widely deployed, > but has fallen behind the times. > Zash thinks it's mostly fine, but some clarification never hurts. > Georg is pretty sure the original authors are very busy, so it may be > necessary to re-assign or find a Shepherd; suggests two potential ways > forward: editorial clean-up and modernization without bumping, or 'the > crazy multi-ACK namespace bump' - though Georg lacks the time to honestly > promise to step up to do the first option. Daniel is against the latter > option. Jonas is also against the latter, and would rather bump XEP-0333 > (Chat Markers) by mutating it to do multi-message ACKs - Georg thinks this > would be rather weird, and it would be much more straightforward to add a > new version to XEP-0184 (Message Delivery Receipts) plus server-side > mux/demux compatibility. > Georg would like to do the 0184 editing, but lacks the time, so if > somebody wearing a fancy hat could remind him periodically, this might > happen in a reasonable time-frame. > The Editor will ping the authors, and then nag Georg if that doesn't work. > > Zash: [on-list] (will have to re-read that thread) > Georg: -1 (to advance as-is) > Daniel: -1 (suggest some minor clean-ups and then advance) > Jonas: [on-list] (for now) > Dave: [pending] > > I thought a lot of the discussion was interesting and valuable, and I think the spec is fundamentally ready for Final - even if we eventually might update XEP-0333 to entirely obsolete it. So +1 to advance. That said, I'm fully supportive of Daniel's wish to do some clean-up. I'm rather against the idea that we should do anything dramatic though - the simple fact is that the protocol works as advertised right now. > *4b) Last Call: XEP-0280 (Message Carbons)* - > https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html > Daniel doesn't expect this to yield different results to the last time. > Jonas doesn't think 0280 should be modified any more, and efforts should > focus on XEP-0409 (IM Routing-NG). > Being the last one to touch it, Georg was told that "it contains payload > elements typically used in IM" is not a strict definition of applicable > payloads, and thus not implementable, also that there are still not enough > implementations of 'urn:xmpp:carbons:rules:0'. Zash thinks XEP-0226 > (Message Stanza Profiles) could do with an update, and is meant to have the > 'payload elements' definition. > Georg thinks the lessons learnt from 0280 and 0313 (Message Archive > Management) are very important for the transition to 0409 - Jonas concurs. > > Jonas: +1 > Georg: +1 > Zash: +1 > Daniel: +0 > Dave: [pending] > > +1 - Finally! > *4c) Last Call: XEP-0357 (Push Notifications)* - > https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html > Jonas thinks many people will have something something to say about this - > Georg has reminded people to fix the XEP, but to no avail - Jonas thinks > useful and specific on-list feedback would still be good. > > Jonas: +1 > Georg: +1 (hope it won't result in a pointless change-less -1 afterwards) > Daniel: +1 > Zash: +1 > Dave: [pending] > > Always happy to Last Call anything. +1 > *5) Outstanding Votes* > Daniel votes +1 on advancing XEP-0402 (PEP Native Bookmarks). > > *6) Date of next* > 2020-03-25 1600 UTC > > [Note: this remains one hour 'later' for those currently in DST, but will > 'catch up' on the 29th.] > > *7) AOB* > Georg asks the people voting less-than-one to the 0280 LC to elaborate on > their reasoning, so it can be improved and moved forward. Daniel thinks > that people see it as a dead-end, problematic XEP that hasn't changed much > since last time - Georg doesn't see a viable (short-term) replacement, as > 0409 will require a compatibility mode which will ultimately be the > Carbon+MAM rules. > Daniel wonders what can be done with XEPs which are known to be imperfect, > but are currently the best available solution. > Zash changes his vote on 0280 to +1 (noted in-line, above). Georg asks > Zash to update 0226 - Zash would rather have simple, general rules that > don't need to change too often, otherwise rolling out updates becomes > painful; Georg points out that simple, general rules weren't defined when > multi-device support was needed - Zash points out that some XEPs will > eventually become outdated. > > *8) Close* > Thanks all and everyone. > > _______________________________________________ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: [email protected] > _______________________________________________ >
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