Hi,

Just to make that clear: I'm all-in on creating the new GC3 protocol,
but that ideally would tackle many more issues than just the presence
spam (and many of which have already been discussed elsewhere), so the
"easy" protocol you had in mind doesn't really do it.

The main reason why I proposed making use of the existing things, is
that those are already available and we will be able to get
implementation experience quicker. This implementation experience can
be very valuable for the GC3 protocol.

On Mon, 2026-02-02 at 08:48 +0100, Philipp Hörist wrote:
> But thats set by the admin, not by the client. So its not the client
> that gets presences spam under control, its the admin that decides if
> clients are spammed or not.

Which is fine in many cases: Large rooms (especially if bridged from
legacy networks that don't have a room-presence logic) produce the same
amount of presence spam for everyone. There is always a limit of the
amount of presence spam that is bearable to the client. I doubt that
this is something that the enduser will want to decide on (no matter if
as a participant or room owner), so it would just be arbitrary limits
selected by client developers. The question thus is just if those
arbitrary limits are selected by client developers or server/gateway
developers. Doing it on the server using existing mechanisms instead of
involving the client also has the advantage that it immediately is to
the benefit of every client, as it doesn't require any client changes.

> Then there are other obstacles which would need to be solved
> - XEPs that depend on presence (Hats, comes to mind)

Sure, this might be interesting problems to solve. But they also need
to be solved for GC3 independently. Again, getting the implementation
experience on top of MUC and trying different ways how those issues can
be solved based on the existing infrastructure is likely easier than
starting a GC3 from scratch and having to think about everything from
the beginning.

Marvin
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