On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:57 AM Nathan Owens via Starlink <[email protected]> wrote: > > Elon posted a graph, it showed a peak of 7000GB per unit time, the only one > that makes sense to me is per hour, which is 15Gbps peak -- not a huge amount.
You really don't need much data for C&C traffic. You do need a fairly reliable uplink, but the observed jitter on an otherwise idle link was in the few ms range. GPSD has a udp output mode, too. (btw, to my knowledge, starlink has not enabled any network interfaces to the outside to their internal on-dish gps chip, which when I was whinging about it, would provide perfect time to downstream clients, either natively or via ntp) It's one very short message, per second. > > On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Stroh via Starlink > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I’m speculating, but given that Starlink is THE communications >> infrastructure for much of Ukraine, then the scaling of the ground stations >> to provide that level of service must be a significant expense. To provide >> that much bandwidth would require deploying a lot of ground stations, each >> with expensive hardware, power infrastructure (including backup), fiber >> backhaul, skilled labor, and no small amount of fiber bandwidth that SpaceX >> has to pay SOMEONE to provide. >> >> Not to mention that anything SpaceX deploys to support Ukraine is a resource >> that it could have used for speeding up revenue generation in lucrative >> markets like the US. >> >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 12:41 David Lang via Starlink >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> If spacex is providing the high-end/business grade service to all terminals >>> that they normally charge $4500/month for, reimbursement should be based on >>> that. >>> >>> Base it on the normal service pricing, not on cost-plus (if it were based on >>> cost-plus it would be an utter windfall for SpaceX as they are still in the >>> stage of building the service, and so there is a much higher spend rate to >>> expand the service at this point than the ongoing maintinance of it) >>> >>> while the satellites do support that area, they also support the rest of the >>> service, and if they weren't supporting Ukraine, there wouldn't be any fewer >>> satellites launched. >>> >>> I've seen too many games played with 'fully loaded costs' (sometimes >>> backfiring >>> on the people tinkering with the numbers), and so it's something I watch out >>> for. >>> >>> lies, damn lies, and statistics, 'fully loaded costs' tend to be heavy on >>> statistics ;-) >>> >>> David Lang >>> >>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> > Putting aside the timing of Elon's complaint about cost right after the >>> > spat over his Ukrainian "peace plan", It is certainly reasonable for >>> > Starlink to get paid like other weapon suppliers who didn't give out free >>> > samples to prove their usefulness, Given that they should be reimbursed >>> > based on loaded cost plus profit like anyone else. I'm sure the other >>> > suppliers allocate their overhead costs when pricing weapon systems. >>> > They'd be out of business otherwise. The satellites are part of >>> > Starlink's fixed overhead so a portion of their costs should be allocated >>> > to service provided in Ukraine. >>> > >>> > All that being said, it would be terrible if Ukraine got less than the >>> > best support that can be provided. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Starlink <[email protected]> On Behalf Of >>> > David Lang via Starlink >>> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 1:28 PM >>> > To: Kurtis Heimerl <[email protected]> >>> > Cc: Starlink list <[email protected]> >>> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian >>> > army? >>> > >>> > Having now read more info on this, less significant than the $80m total >>> > figure is the $20m/month figure he quoted. With 15k dishes as the figure >>> > that they sent (separate from whatever has been purchased on the >>> > commercial side), that works out to 1.3k/dish/month, which is very high. >>> > >>> > now, not being able to deploy reliable ground stations inside Ukraine >>> > could be driving up costs, plus the ongoing battle against jamming. But >>> > in his tweet he also cites satellite costs, which should not be allocated >>> > as "Ukraine related" >>> > costs (and I don't think the cyberdefense and jamming defense work should >>> > be >>> > either) >>> > >>> > David Lang >>> > >>> > On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, Kurtis Heimerl via Starlink wrote: >>> > >>> >> This thread (https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827171903635456) >>> >> strongly argues that Starlink is largely paid for their service, at >>> >> least on the consumer side. I imagine there are significant >>> >> operational expenses in dealing with the various actors involved but >>> >> not on the basic model. >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 9:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> In essence, once you give something away for free, not even setting >>> >>>> the expectation that it’s a “freemium” model, it’s very hard to get >>> >>>> out of it. If you then claim your costs are way higher than what >>> >>>> analysis work out, eyebrows raise way above the hairline. >>> >>> >>> >>> Uh. Hmm. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Starlink mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Starlink mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> -- >> Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) >> Editor >> Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list [email protected] https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
