On Thu, 20 Apr 2023, Eugene Chang via Starlink wrote:
Friends,
As I follow the discussion of putting computers on satellite, I can understand
the attraction if I apply the discussion with a satellite and server above my
location, suspended by a skyhook. The geometry is very easy (some variations of
a triangle). However, with an LEO satellite (or MEO), most of the time the
server is not overhead, it is hidden by the horizon.
Have I missed comments (or naively not understood comments) about how the
solutions work when the server is not overhead? I wanted to hear about data
locality and how the desired behavior varies according to the position of the
server. Does some of the proposed edge computing imply (or assume) the data is
needed on many satellites so that there is always a server overhead with the
needed data? (Then we have lots of data synchronization challenges.) Clearly,
this suggests there is a scaling problem for edge computing solutions because
for a single server, most of the time the computer is not at the edge near me.
What am I missing?
1. data like DNS where it really is the same everywhere and changes relatively
slowly so it works well in this environment. (streaming data could possibly fall
in this category, depending on how popular something is)
2. compute loads where you don't get the answer back immediately and can wait
until the next orbit to get the answer (or where the processing time is large
enough that the latency of sending the results around the world when it's done
are small compared to the time it takes to generate the response) This is not
what people think of, as it's not people waiting for the answer from a browser,
but there is a lot more number-crunching than you think.
But yes, there are large categories of servers that this won't work for.
David Lang
Gene
-----------------------------------
Eugene Chang
[email protected]
+1-781-799-0233 (in Honolulu)
On Apr 20, 2023, at 2:24 AM, David Fernández via Starlink
<[email protected]> wrote:
Well, O3b MPower (MEO satellites) is offering independent one hop
dedicated access to the (Microsoft Azure) cloud as "killer
application". If the cloud is on the satellite, half-hop.
Starlink GWs are near Google Cloud datacenters.
Blue Origin is on the mission to move Amazon Cloud to orbit,
eventually, maybe, leaving the Earth as a garden to enjoy, without any
industry on the surface (in a century, maybe). Kuiper will offer one
hop access to Amazon Cloud, then half-hop.
What seems a crazy idea today will be eventually implemented later,
like Starlink (Teledesic failed, fingers crossed Starlink does not go
bankrupt, although I would expect it be saved by Department of
Defense, as Iridium was saved).
As we were discussing recently, maybe starting with anycast DNS
servers on satellites is a first step to consider, before embarking
any other type of cloud servers.
Regards,
David
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 04:33:00 +0000
From: Ulrich Speidel <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, 'Michael Richardson'
<[email protected]>, 'starlink' <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in
space)
Message-ID:
<sy4pr01mb697983bb5deb1b2aa0b2690bce...@sy4pr01mb6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Where do I even start? The lack of substantial bandwidth between space and
ground? The extra latency between ground and space compared to terrestrial
cloud, especially as terrestrial cloud edge can move much closer to
customers when space can't? The fact that every LEO satellite is both a few
100 km from every customer and out of the customer's range depending on when
you look? That low temperatures in space don't mean superconductive chips
that produce zero heat, and that that heat is difficult to get rid of in
space? That generating power in space is orders of magnitude more expensive
than on the ground?
Just because Starlink can provide a service somewhere between DSL and low to
medium grade fibre to a few million around the globe it's not "done". Even
with 10x the number of satellites and a couple of times the current capacity
per satellite, Starlink isn't going to supply more than a couple of 100
million at best, and that's not even accounting for growth in demand from
IOT...
--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282
The University of Auckland
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
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