Samuel, Well, it depends what kind of "desperate" situation you are in...........:) Your wedside says: www.plantoilcooker.org.........correct?? Otto
> From: Shiroff Samuel Neal (CR) [[email protected]] > Sent: 2011-01-21 11:08:42 MET > To: Otto Formo [[email protected]], [email protected] > Subject: AW: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably > > But Otto, you can't eat Jatropha Oil anyway. It is also hard to eat rice and > other staples without cooking them first. > > ******************************************** > Samuel N. Shiroff > BSH Bosch und Siemens Hausgeräte GmbH > Carl-Wery-Strasse 34 > 81739 Munich > Germany > T: +49 89 4590-3039 > F: +49 89 4590-3249 > E: [email protected] > www.bsh-group.com / www.plantoilcooker.org > > Protos. The Plant Oil Cooker. > An Initiative of Bosch and Siemens Home Appliances Group. > > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Joe Kaeser > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Kurt-Ludwig Gutberlet (Vors.), Johannes Närger, Jean > Dufour, Winfried Seitz > Sitz: München; Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRB 75534; > WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 57986696 > > Diese Mitteilung ist ausschließlich für den beabsichtigten Empfänger > bestimmt. Sie kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige > vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Jede(r) unberechtigte Gebrauch, Kopie, > Weitergabe oder Veröffentlichung ist untersagt. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail > irrtümlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen Sie uns bitte sofort durch > Antwortmail und löschen Sie diese E-Mail nebst etwaigen Anlagen und > einschließlich aller angefertigten Kopien von Ihrem System. > > This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain > trade secrets or other confidential and privileged information. Any > unauthorized review, use, copy, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please inform us immediately by reply > e-mail and delete this message including any attachment or copies thereof > from your system. > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Otto Formo [mailto:[email protected]] > Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Januar 2011 11:07 > An: Shiroff, Samuel Neal (CR); [email protected] > Betreff: SV: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably > > Thanks for the information on Jatropha oil. > Tests has been made in Norway to detect any toxic emmission from the seed > cake when burned into cookingstoves. > Since there is some content of N (nitrogen) in the seed cake we are afraied > it might give some NOX from the emmision, when used as fuel, tests will tell. > I will give you feedbacks as soon we have the report "in house". > To use plantoil as a cooking fuel, I find as a waste of food, sorry. > Otto > > > From: Shiroff Samuel Neal (CR) [[email protected]] > > Sent: 2011-01-21 10:52:43 MET > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably > > > > Hi, > > > > As many of you know BSH has developed a universal plant oil cookstove. > > Jatropha oil burns beautifully in it. > > > > Naturally if the focus remains on using the lowest added-value fuel, > > pressed and filtered plant oil is not the first choice. Nevertheless if > > you are working on a project and have Jatropha available in significant > > quantities, I would be very happy to speak with you. > > > > Regards, > > Sam > > > > ******************************************** > > Samuel N. Shiroff > > BSH Bosch und Siemens Hausgeräte GmbH > > Carl-Wery-Strasse 34 > > 81739 Munich > > Germany > > T: +49 89 4590-3039 > > F: +49 89 4590-3249 > > E: [email protected] > > www.bsh-group.com / www.plantoilcooker.org > > > > Protos. The Plant Oil Cooker. > > An Initiative of Bosch and Siemens Home Appliances Group. > > > > Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Joe Kaeser > > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Kurt-Ludwig Gutberlet (Vors.), Johannes Närger, Jean > > Dufour, Winfried Seitz > > Sitz: München; Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRB 75534; > > WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 57986696 > > > > Diese Mitteilung ist ausschließlich für den beabsichtigten Empfänger > > bestimmt. Sie kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige > > vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Jede(r) unberechtigte Gebrauch, > > Kopie, Weitergabe oder Veröffentlichung ist untersagt. Sollten Sie diese > > E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen Sie uns bitte sofort > > durch Antwortmail und löschen Sie diese E-Mail nebst etwaigen Anlagen und > > einschließlich aller angefertigten Kopien von Ihrem System. > > > > This message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > > contain trade secrets or other confidential and privileged information. Any > > unauthorized review, use, copy, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > > If you are not the intended recipient, please inform us immediately by > > reply e-mail and delete this message including any attachment or copies > > thereof from your system. > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von > > [email protected] > > Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Januar 2011 10:39 > > An: [email protected] > > Betreff: Stoves Digest, Vol 5, Issue 21 > > > > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: (no subject) (Boston Nyer) > > 2. Re: (no subject) (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott) > > 3. Re: jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably has > > for others, somewhere (Richard Stanley) > > 4. Re: Testing and Development Laboratories (seb) > > 5. Re: jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it probably has > > for others, somewhere (Jonathan Otto) > > 6. Re: jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it probably > > has for others, somewhere (Paul S. Anderson) > > 7. Jatropha seeds wanted in USA - can you bring to ETHOS? > > (Paul S. Anderson) > > 8. Re: Testing and Development Laboratories (Otto Formo) > > 9. Re: jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it probably > > has for others, somewhere (Boston Nyer) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:39:10 -0700 > > From: Boston Nyer <[email protected]> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] (no subject) > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > Hi Richard, > > > > I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is interesting. > > > > At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions about a > > few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does not burn > > well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is: what can we do with > > this waste stream this is both useful and desirable? > > > > One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar > > briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly > > agree with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if > > the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit contrived, > > eh? > > > > I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. > > > > Cheers, > > Boston > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Richard Stanley > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > Jessica, > > > Me again, I answered some of these questions to you in a post directly to > > > you (as that one came directly from you) --a few minutes ago, but > > > let me add a few comments in reponse to your other questions here...( am > > > responding in-kind below...) > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Jessica De Clerck wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am looking for some insight into an array of issues around fuel > > > briquettes and stoves. I apologize for the long list! I am hoping > > > Crispin, Dr. TLUD, Richard and others can answer some of these. > > > > > > *Burning Stalks* > > > At Stove Camp 2010, we used TLUDs to burn what I recall were maize stalks > > > in Dr. Anderson?s TLUD. It worked great. However, if maize or sugar cane > > > stalks can be burned for fuel, why are people not already using this fuel > > > in > > > three stone fires, or are they? I did not see this in Uganda, but I do > > > not know about Haiti or elsewhere (where I will be working soon). I > > > understand that a TLUD or other stoves would do a better job of cleaning > > > up > > > emissions. -But if a person had access to free fuel in their fields, I > > > would > > > think they must have a good reason for not burning it, even in an open > > > fire. > > > > > > Does the fact that it burns quicker than wood deter people because it > > > requires more effort to feed it constantly into the stove? Or does it not > > > burn as cleanly as wood? > > > > > > *Consumption Rate* > > > Does burning fuel in a TLUD or other stove slow down the rate at which > > > fuel > > > burns as compared with fuel burned in an open fire? It seems to me it > > > would because the airflow into the fire would be more controlled in a > > > stove. > > > > > > *Density* > > > This also brings up the question of the density of a fuel briquette. What > > > difference does density make? It seems like we pay a lot of attention to > > > this, but to me it seems the only difference is that the less dense the > > > briquette the quicker it will burn. Does a less dense briquette burn > > > hotter > > > (assuming identical material is used in each briquette)? > > > > > > It burns quicker but not necessarly hotter. Density is roughly equivalent > > > to duration assuming same blend and stove . Greaster density also equates > > > (ex any special starters) to harder start with above assumptions also in > > > effect. You 'pays yer money and takes yer choice', eh ? > > > > > > > > > *Briquette Stoves* > > > I have recently built another RokStove or Holey Rocket ?the side fed > > > rocket > > > stove for holey briquettes out of clay and sawdust. I made it to the best > > > specifications I could come up with after considering rocket stove > > > principles, which was 9? long, 15? tall, and 5? in diameter both in the > > > feeding area and combustion chamber. Once the stove has been fired, these > > > dimensions will have shrunk approximately 10%. This will leave a gap > > > between the stove and my 4?x 2? holey (1? hole) briquettes. I would like > > > to know if anyone else has had experience in building or using these > > > stoves > > > so that we may share lessons learned. I already speak with Rok and he?s a > > > great help. > > > > > > Rok is the guy for this. He speaks of the need to think a lot about > > > internal hole size to regulate primary air volume and via my own insight > > > gained through such Stoves group luminaries such as Crispin here, > > > temperature...The annular space between the OD of the briquettes and the > > > ID > > > of the feed tube, is also important. > > > > > > > > > What other stoves have been tested and are recommended for burning holey > > > briquettes? I am assuming unless the hole is used as an air channel as in > > > the RokStove, the hole in the briquette makes no difference (for example > > > if > > > the briquettes are just put in a pile, or used in a gasifier, because > > > otherwise a briquette can be broken into pieces if too large). > > > > > > Rite-e-o on that one, save the one fact that the hole greatly acceletates > > > --and makes more consistent-- the drying rate. Add too, the effect of the > > > hole in burning them up right, in the three stove open burn situation. > > > ie., > > > ex any stove surround structure. > > > > > > > > > *Green Charcoal vs. Uncarbonized Briquettes* > > > Lastly, has anyone done a study of the emissions from making ?green > > > charcoal?? I see what Amy Smith is doing with the kilns to make charcoal > > > and the Adam Retort and there seems to be a ton of smoke coming off the > > > kilns in the process of making the charcoal. I understand it is an > > > improvement from traditional charcoal making, but I wonder if anyone has > > > measured the emissions so that I can compare it to other processes. > > > > > > Shhh. you are unveiling the big secret of the carboniser school here !!! > > > We don't want to talk about the smoke and energy losses due to > > > carbonisation..not as they occur in the user site and all conditions they > > > live with...and after the techies have left and the ted talks and photo > > > op's > > > wither from our memories. > > > > > > But why carbonise at all if you have access to the charcoal crumbs and > > > fines and dust found around every charcoal sellers stall everywhere in the > > > third world...? Thie waste accounts for between 15 and 20% of the lump > > > charcoal being brought into the stall and sold through it...You blend that > > > amount into the briquettes and you double the market for the seller or > > > proportionately reduce their demand on charcoal while earning them the > > > same > > > income... but I'm being a bi facetious: It makes sence where there is no > > > charcoal dust--I guess... > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have recommendations on what raw materials ought to be burned > > > in a retort vs. crushed and made into uncarbonized briquettes? I?m > > > thinking coconut shells and other hard materials that cannot be crushed > > > easily, but I would appreciate more input. > > > > > > > > > Thank you all for you time. > > > > > > Jessica De Clerck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Boston Nyer > > Graduate Student > > Department of Civil, Environmental, and Architectural Engineering > > University of Colorado at Boulder > > (585) 503-3459 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/5a3eb015/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:57:32 -0500 > > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> > > To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] (no subject) > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Dear Boston > > > > > > > > Can you send me some jatropha seed cake? > > > > > > > > In fact, where are you? If it is more convenient, you can send it to SeTAR > > in Johannesburg and I will deal with it there. > > > > > > > > It is hard to believe there is no easy way to burn it. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Crispin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Boston Nyer > > Sent: 20 January 2011 15:39 > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] (no subject) > > > > > > > > Hi Richard, > > > > > > > > I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is interesting. > > > > > > > > At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions about a > > few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does not burn > > well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is: what can we do with > > this waste stream this is both useful and desirable? > > > > > > > > One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar > > briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly > > agree with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if > > the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit contrived, > > eh? > > > > > > > > I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Boston > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/370fba99/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:27:15 -0800 > > From: Richard Stanley <[email protected]> > > To: Boston Nyer <[email protected]> > > Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it > > probably has for others, somewhere > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > Boston, > > I would toss this question out to the combustion experts on the stoves and > > biomass lists...here. > > > > I have not tried it out but I know that others must have by now. The idea > > is to get behind the reason for poor combustion Crispin if I have him > > correctly implies that there is no poor biomass fuel, only poor > > stoves...Thats one avenue which the stoves group is particularly good at. > > > > The larger question is: What is missing by this process: What is missing is > > the 90% of the rest of us in the inquiry. I'm referring to the faceless > > bystanders you see as CNN rushes to its big story in the so called > > developing world. > > > > People have been sorting undesired elements out of biomass for as long as > > we have had fire-- probably before that: Indeed the fire must have excused > > lots of pre processing. Bio-matter has been is > > washed/soaked/dried/winnowed/beaten/buried/ and blended for specific > > culinary or health applications for centuries... > > That we notice one kind of biomass which burns badly and therefore has to > > be especially processed lest it not pass the test of our western > > intellectual inquiry-- is not necessarily a definitive test of its > > potential suitability at all. It merely reflects the fact that the "we" > > are probably in need of going out amongst the rest of us to find out, the > > why, how and the what--- the rest of us have been doing... > > It may be that no one has ever successfully burned jatropa...but, > > personally, I would not bet on it. > > > > > > If you like coffee, take a read of this example. The Inca's had perfected a > > simple method of soaking the roasted ground beans in cold water then > > draining off the liquid after a certain time period (~12 hrs) to separate > > out the oil and acid from the real coffee "caffeol" element. The oil and > > acid remained bound to the roasted grounds, while the pure coffee element > > nicely disburses into the water as a concentrate--for use with then Hot > > water or cold to make a really good cuppa java! Even the cheap sawdust the > > discount houses offer as coffee grounds will make a really good cup > > (Starbucks beware). > > > > The Incas may have evolved this procedure for coffeemaking, more out of > > necessity than for the inherent pursuit of the perfect cuppa joe, because > > in the altiplano at least, they lived on- or above- tree line ~9,500 ft > > where fuelwood consumption for cooking is about 3 X greater than at the > > more common sea level to say 4000 ft elevations. > > > > The result was however, that the resulting coffee came out with far less > > oil and acid with greatly reduced chance of the associated stomach and > > heart burn (which we try to mask with sugar and cream nowadays). > > > > The incas mastered this process several hundred years ago, well before > > the process was "discovered" by two young scientists from xyz university en > > el norte, as the story goes, "working in their garage, etc., etc"... You > > can read about the new cold brew process at ( www.toddycafe.com ) but if > > you ever venture into a coffee shop in Cusco Peru, you may find small cups > > of concentrated liquid coffee made by the same process. It was well > > established before I ever set foot in the altiplano of Peru, ten years ago. > > > > Sure it has since been analysed, packaged and widely sold in the states > > now--we are very good at that part--but in all honesty it began far before > > we even set eyes upon the notion.. > > > > The point of this digression is this: I have little doubt that if you were > > to venture out into the jatropa-using world (not just the development > > project world or institutional research world) but the user-on-the-ground > > world, you will probably discover how somebody somewhere has figured out a > > way to process it as fuel... > > > > The ideal is to do this and to frame your scientific investigations at the > > same time: to run the "field" investigation in parallel and collaboratively > > with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the best of both worlds as > > information and data sources: You form a link to-- and directly or > > indirectly- help to empower those who can not only benefit from the > > results but who can become teachers of others for the future. > > > > Then publish it with all your collaborrants, for the rest of us. It will > > be a great contribution ! > > > > Pressing on, > > > > Richard Stanley > > www.legacyfound.org > > Ashland Or. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer wrote: > > > > > Hi Richard, > > > > > > I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is > > > interesting. > > > > > > At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions about a > > > few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does not > > > burn well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is: what can we > > > do with this waste stream this is both useful and desirable? > > > > > > One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar > > > briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly > > > agree with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion if > > > the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit contrived, > > > eh? > > > > > > I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Boston > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Richard Stanley > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Jessica, > > > Me again, I answered some of these questions to you in a post directly > > > to you (as that one came directly from you) --a few minutes ago, but > > > let me add a few comments in reponse to your other questions here...( am > > > responding in-kind below...) > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2011, at 12:33 PM, Jessica De Clerck wrote: > > > > > >> Hello, > > >> > > >> I am looking for some insight into an array of issues around fuel > > >> briquettes and stoves. I apologize for the long list! I am hoping > > >> Crispin, Dr. TLUD, Richard and others can answer some of these. > > >> > > >> Burning Stalks > > >> At Stove Camp 2010, we used TLUDs to burn what I recall were maize > > >> stalks in Dr. Anderson?s TLUD. It worked great. However, if maize or > > >> sugar cane stalks can be burned for fuel, why are people not already > > >> using this fuel in three stone fires, or are they? I did not see this > > >> in Uganda, but I do not know about Haiti or elsewhere (where I will be > > >> working soon). I understand that a TLUD or other stoves would do a > > >> better job of cleaning up emissions. -But if a person had access to free > > >> fuel in their fields, I would think they must have a good reason for not > > >> burning it, even in an open fire. > > >> > > >> Does the fact that it burns quicker than wood deter people because it > > >> requires more effort to feed it constantly into the stove? Or does it > > >> not burn as cleanly as wood? > > >> > > >> Consumption Rate > > >> Does burning fuel in a TLUD or other stove slow down the rate at which > > >> fuel burns as compared with fuel burned in an open fire? It seems to me > > >> it would because the airflow into the fire would be more controlled in a > > >> stove. > > >> > > >> Density > > >> This also brings up the question of the density of a fuel briquette. > > >> What difference does density make? It seems like we pay a lot of > > >> attention to this, but to me it seems the only difference is that the > > >> less dense the briquette the quicker it will burn. Does a less dense > > >> briquette burn hotter (assuming identical material is used in each > > >> briquette)? > > > It burns quicker but not necessarly hotter. Density is roughly equivalent > > > to duration assuming same blend and stove . Greaster density also equates > > > (ex any special starters) to harder start with above assumptions also in > > > effect. You 'pays yer money and takes yer choice', eh ? > > > > > >> > > >> Briquette Stoves > > >> I have recently built another RokStove or Holey Rocket ?the side fed > > >> rocket stove for holey briquettes out of clay and sawdust. I made it to > > >> the best specifications I could come up with after considering rocket > > >> stove principles, which was 9? long, 15? tall, and 5? in diameter both > > >> in the feeding area and combustion chamber. Once the stove has been > > >> fired, these dimensions will have shrunk approximately 10%. This will > > >> leave a gap between the stove and my 4?x 2? holey (1? hole) briquettes. > > >> I would like to know if anyone else has had experience in building or > > >> using these stoves so that we may share lessons learned. I already > > >> speak with Rok and he?s a great help. > > > Rok is the guy for this. He speaks of the need to think a lot about > > > internal hole size to regulate primary air volume and via my own insight > > > gained through such Stoves group luminaries such as Crispin here, > > > temperature...The annular space between the OD of the briquettes and the > > > ID of the feed tube, is also important. > > > > > >> > > >> What other stoves have been tested and are recommended for burning holey > > >> briquettes? I am assuming unless the hole is used as an air channel as > > >> in the RokStove, the hole in the briquette makes no difference (for > > >> example if the briquettes are just put in a pile, or used in a gasifier, > > >> because otherwise a briquette can be broken into pieces if too large). > > > > > > Rite-e-o on that one, save the one fact that the hole greatly acceletates > > > --and makes more consistent-- the drying rate. Add too, the effect of the > > > hole in burning them up right, in the three stove open burn situation. > > > ie., ex any stove surround structure. > > >> > > >> Green Charcoal vs. Uncarbonized Briquettes > > >> Lastly, has anyone done a study of the emissions from making ?green > > >> charcoal?? I see what Amy Smith is doing with the kilns to make > > >> charcoal and the Adam Retort and there seems to be a ton of smoke coming > > >> off the kilns in the process of making the charcoal. I understand it is > > >> an improvement from traditional charcoal making, but I wonder if anyone > > >> has measured the emissions so that I can compare it to other processes. > > > Shhh. you are unveiling the big secret of the carboniser school here > > > !!! We don't want to talk about the smoke and energy losses due to > > > carbonisation..not as they occur in the user site and all conditions they > > > live with...and after the techies have left and the ted talks and photo > > > op's wither from our memories. > > > > > > But why carbonise at all if you have access to the charcoal crumbs and > > > fines and dust found around every charcoal sellers stall everywhere in > > > the third world...? Thie waste accounts for between 15 and 20% of the > > > lump charcoal being brought into the stall and sold through it...You > > > blend that amount into the briquettes and you double the market for the > > > seller or proportionately reduce their demand on charcoal while earning > > > them the same income... but I'm being a bi facetious: It makes sence > > > where there is no charcoal dust--I guess... > > > > > >> > > >> Does anyone have recommendations on what raw materials ought to be > > >> burned in a retort vs. crushed and made into uncarbonized briquettes? > > >> I?m thinking coconut shells and other hard materials that cannot be > > >> crushed easily, but I would appreciate more input. > > >> > > >> Thank you all for you time. > > >> > > >> Jessica De Clerck > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Stoves mailing list > > >> > > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > >> Stoves mailing list > > >> > > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > >> > > >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Boston Nyer > > > Graduate Student > > > Department of Civil, Environmental, and Architectural Engineering > > > University of Colorado at Boulder > > > (585) 503-3459 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/fc479099/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:44:40 -0800 > > From: seb <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories > > Message-ID: <1295487880.8995.15.camel@seb-laptop> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Tom, > > > > Aprovecho specializes in setting up regional testing centers. The > > equipment and personnel your lab needs depends on what you want to do. > > Two broad categories are the stove's emissions and fuel performance. You > > could also focus on fuel production alone. > > > > Much of what is learned comes from taking the time to carefully carry > > out tests and record in an objective way what is observed. Observation > > is more important than discovery or success. > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > From: Tom Miles <[email protected]> > > > > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:53:26 -0800 > > > > > > What would labs need funding support for? Equipment? Personnel? > > > > Conducting tests, design and development? Or all of these? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:30:55 -0500 > > From: Jonathan Otto <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] jatropa does not burn well for us ....but it > > probably has for others, somewhere > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > Not sure where this fits into the stream of 19 simultaneous subjects, but > > here goes: > > > > We have a natural draft TLUD developed specifically to combust whole > > Jatropha seeds -- quite a challenge given the intense energy in those long > > chain hydrocarbons. > > > > For years we assumed since the main energy was in the seeds' oil, that we > > needed to remove it first and make a liquid fuel stove. Not true. > > > > Paul Anderson and the other heavies at Biomass Energy Foundation showed us > > solid fuel vaporization technology at CHAB Camp last August, and 6 months > > later we're planning on field testing in Tanzania in March, and if all goes > > well ( a huge caveat to be sure) we'll be in production shortly thereafter. > > > > Very low emissions ... 18% biochar ... Home grown fuel from hedges around > > fields and farmsteads ... cost less than 50% of the price of charcoal. > > > > Jonathan Otto > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110120/2fe641cb/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:37:27 -0600 > > From: "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > <[email protected]>, Richard Stanley > > <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]>, Jonathan Otto <[email protected]> > > Cc: Discussion, stoves <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it > > probably has for others, somewhere > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > > format="flowed" > > > > Dear Boston and all, > > > > I hope you can come to ETHOS meeting next weekend 28-30 Jan in Seattle > > and see the Jatropha-seed stove that will be discussed in a > > presentation and fired up at the stove demo. It is by "Jet City > > Stoveworks" (JCSW) (Seattle is Jet City) and "Pamoja" (NGO working in > > Tanzania). I have worked with them on this stove. > > > > The answer is yes, jatropha can be burned cleanly in stoves. but > > there are challenges. > > > > You and CU (Colorado Univ.?) and others with Jatropha efforts could > > fit in well with additional work on burning jatropha. Pamoja and JCSW > > and I (independently or together) would be glad to collaborate. > > > > There could be several ways to handle jatropha as a stove fuel. We > > are working (successfully) with one, which is to use the TLUD > > combustion technology. In brief, because the top-lit updraft (TLUD) > > functions with a decending pyrolysis front that is quite well behaved > > and uniform, the flaming pyrolysis (limited oxygen present) provides > > heat that vaporizes the jatropha oils, releasing them as gases along > > with the pyrolysis gases. The challenge is in the combustion of so > > much gas and that type of gas (probably longer-chain hydrocarbons). > > > > To handle the jatropha press cake, pelletizing or briquetting is > > probably the best option. And the press cake could be mixed with some > > other biomass. Loose presscake alone would block the needed air flow > > in the TLUD. > > > > I will leave the details of the Pamoja/JCSW to them to present 9 days > > from now. Then we could get into the real details. > > > > Request: Do you (at CU) or anyone else have any supply of natural > > (not pressed) jatropha seeds? JCSW and I are looking for some kilos. > > > > -- > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD > > Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected] > > > > > > Quoting Richard Stanley <[email protected]>: -- snipped -- > > > > > Boston, > > > I would toss this question out to the combustion experts on the > > > stoves and biomass lists...here. > > > > > > I have not tried it out but I know that others must have by now. The > > > idea is to get behind the reason for poor combustion Crispin if I > > > have him correctly implies that there is no poor biomass fuel, only > > > poor stoves...Thats one avenue which the stoves group is > > > particularly good at. > > > > > > It may be that no one has ever successfully burned jatropa...but, > > > personally, I would not bet on it. > > > snipped The point of this digression is this: I have little > > > doubt that if you were to venture out into the jatropa-using world > > > (not just the development project world or institutional research > > > world) but the user-on-the-ground world, you will probably discover > > > how somebody somewhere has figured out a way to process it as fuel... > > > > > > The ideal is to do this and to frame your scientific investigations > > > at the same time: to run the "field" investigation in parallel and > > > collaboratively with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the > > > best of both worlds as information and data sources: You form a link > > > to-- and directly or indirectly- help to empower those who can not > > > only benefit from the results but who can become teachers of others > > > for the future. > > > > NOTE by PSA: This is what Pamoja is doing. > > > > > > Then publish it with all your collaborrants, for the rest of us. It > > > will be a great contribution ! > > > > > > Pressing on, > > > > > > Richard Stanley > > > www.legacyfound.org > > > Ashland Or. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Richard, > > >> > > >> I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is > > >> interesting. > > >> > > >> At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions > > >> about a few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha > > >> seedcake does not burn well, not even close. So, one of our > > >> questions now is: what can we do with this waste stream this is > > >> both useful and desirable? > > >> > > >> One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for > > >> biochar briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However, I > > >> wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. > > >> What is your opinion if the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? > > >> It still seems a bit contrived, eh? > > >> > > >> I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Boston > > >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:00:06 -0600 > > From: "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > <[email protected]>, Jonathan Otto > > <[email protected]> > > Cc: ETHOS - Listserve <[email protected]>, > > [email protected] > > Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha seeds wanted in USA - can you bring to > > ETHOS? > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > > format="flowed" > > > > Stovers and ETHOS persons, > > > > Please contact me or Jonathan Otto if you have some jatropha seeds > > already in North America, > > > > OR > > > > If you are coming to ETHOS (or on any trip to America) from a place > > where jatropha is growing, and would bring some kilos in your luggage. > > > > We need the seeds for continuing tests of their combustion. > > > > It is legal to bring jatropha seeds into America (clean -- no dirt on > > them --) and declare them at customs entry point. Tell the > > agricultural inspectors what they are and tell them that they will be > > burned. Several of us have done this already without any difficulty, > > but we need travellers to bring more seeds. > > > > Once in North America, we can send them by postal service to the > > location of the research. Or bring them to ETHOS in Seattle next > > week, and we will take care of them from that point onward. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD > > Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 09:07:15 +0100 (MET) > > From: Otto Formo <[email protected]> > > To: Frank Shields <[email protected]>, Discussion of biomass > > cooking stoves <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Dear Frank, > > I very much agree with you. > > Tests according to protocol should be run by certified and indepemdent labs > > and you should compare - apples to apples, not like it is to day. > > The independent aspect is the most important one, either you produce stoves > > and let others do the testing or you do the testing as an independent > > reserach center and let others produce the stoves. > > Internal testing should of cource continue, but to be "approved" by the > > GACC, tests should be done by independent research centres world wide. > > That should be the one and only way forward. > > > > Iam about to contact SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology, Department > > of Mechanical Engineering, Thermal Energy Division in Norway about these > > issues, right now. > > Otto > > > > > From: Frank Shields [[email protected]] > > > Sent: 2011-01-20 19:04:44 MET > > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves [[email protected]] > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories > > > > > > Tom, Crispin and Stovers, > > > > > > But first we need to get organized. Common testing protocol run by > > > certified labs -so apples to apples. This takes an organization and > > > money to put it all together. Otherwise we get nowhere as I see it. > > > Having a list of all the labs working on stoves is a -great- start. > > > Getting the labs to send SOP's to a central organization that wants to > > > take on organization the QC program may be a second. Publish the > > > collection of SOP's for distribution for comment could be a third. Then > > > picking ones for all labs to use a fourth. Organizing a protocol to > > > update, add to, remove test methods a fifth. Something like that. > > > > > > Otherwise Crispins work helps him develop his stoves and Aprovecho > > > methods help them better their stoves - but Crispins data cannot be > > > compared to the data Aprovecho produces and the stoves they both produce > > > cannot be compared to each other until the same protocol is used and an > > > independent certified lab does the testing. > > > > > > Regards > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Miles wrote: > > > > > > > Crispin, > > > > > > > > Good examples and great ideas. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of > > > > *Crispin Pemberton-Pigott > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2011 2:01 PM > > > > *To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Testing and Development Laboratories > > > > > > > > Dear Tom > > > > > > > > We need a bigger testing footprint. Many many stove are promoted > > > > without people have a real clue as to their fuel saving or emissions > > > > profile and the reason is primarily no access to any testing or the > > > > testing was not relevant, not even to mention its accuracy. > > > > > > > >>The reason for asking is that one way to stimulate stove improvement > > > > might be enable producers to access and get support from labs. > > > > > > > > I believe the progress made by John Davies, on his own, was in good > > > > measure because real time testing could show him what was and was not > > > > better, sifting through his hunches about how things should work. > > > > Maybe he can support that. It certainly helped me. I was stuck in > > > > ?visual land? until I was handed a small combustion analyser. > > > > > > > >>I have seen situations where a design gets "stuck" without being > > > > further developed due to lack of technical support. > > > > > > > > That support is the sort of thing you get at the SEET lab: bring it I, > > > > make it perform, we will let you know what we think would make it > > > > better, then demonstrate it to convince you. Emissions reductions by a > > > > factor of 10 are routine with this method. > > > > > > > >>Organizations involved in production and dissemination often don't > > > > have the appropriate resources. > > > > > > > > It is a good use of Global Alliance funds because perhaps 100 new > > > > products are needed. > > > > > > > >>What would labs need funding support for? Equipment? Personnel? > > > > Conducting tests, design and development? Or all of these? > > > > > > > > All those and post-grads. I have been trying to get 5 physics students > > > > into the SEET lab for more than a year with no success. No one will > > > > look ahead 5 years to the time when we need a new coterie of people > > > > skilled at testing and familiar with the issues of standard setting > > > > and certification (implying legislation and inspection). > > > > > > > > Design and Development has to be backed up by access to real time > > > > emissions and thermal efficiency testing. The task-based approach > > > > often used till now hides too many thing and can waste a great deal of > > > > effort. > > > > > > > > Take a look at the attached charts. There is only one small difference > > > > between these two tests (same stove) something detected in a real time > > > > examination of the emissions. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Crispin > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Stoves mailing list > > > > > > > >to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > >Stoves mailing list > > > > > > > >to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > >http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > >for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > >http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 02:37:47 -0700 > > From: Boston Nyer <[email protected]> > > To: "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> > > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Kristen Matsumura > > <[email protected]>, Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] jatropha does not burn well for us ....but it > > probably has for others, somewhere > > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Dr. Anderson, > > > > I know that the University of Florida - Lee County Extension Services - > > Agriculture and Natural Resources has plenty of Jatropha seeds. They > > offered to send us some a few months back. You can inquire with Fitzroy > > Beckford ([email protected]) or Martha Avila ([email protected]). > > > > I'm excited to hear more about your TLUD that runs on Jatropha seeds. > > Unfortunately, I'm in Bangladesh and won't be able to attend ETHOS. > > However, Kristen Matsumura (cc-ed) is also working on the Jatropha research > > at CU and will be there. > > > > I look forward to hearing more about it. > > > > Cheers, > > Boston > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Paul S. Anderson <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > Dear Boston and all, > > > > > > I hope you can come to ETHOS meeting next weekend 28-30 Jan in Seattle and > > > see the Jatropha-seed stove that will be discussed in a presentation and > > > fired up at the stove demo. It is by "Jet City Stoveworks" (JCSW) > > > (Seattle > > > is Jet City) and "Pamoja" (NGO working in Tanzania). I have worked with > > > them on this stove. > > > > > > The answer is yes, jatropha can be burned cleanly in stoves. but there > > > are > > > challenges. > > > > > > You and CU (Colorado Univ.?) and others with Jatropha efforts could fit in > > > well with additional work on burning jatropha. Pamoja and JCSW and I > > > (independently or together) would be glad to collaborate. > > > > > > There could be several ways to handle jatropha as a stove fuel. We are > > > working (successfully) with one, which is to use the TLUD combustion > > > technology. In brief, because the top-lit updraft (TLUD) functions with a > > > decending pyrolysis front that is quite well behaved and uniform, the > > > flaming pyrolysis (limited oxygen present) provides heat that vaporizes > > > the > > > jatropha oils, releasing them as gases along with the pyrolysis gases. > > > The > > > challenge is in the combustion of so much gas and that type of gas > > > (probably > > > longer-chain hydrocarbons). > > > > > > To handle the jatropha press cake, pelletizing or briquetting is probably > > > the best option. And the press cake could be mixed with some other > > > biomass. > > > Loose presscake alone would block the needed air flow in the TLUD. > > > > > > I will leave the details of the Pamoja/JCSW to them to present 9 days from > > > now. Then we could get into the real details. > > > > > > Request: Do you (at CU) or anyone else have any supply of natural (not > > > pressed) jatropha seeds? JCSW and I are looking for some kilos. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD > > > Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor > > > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > Quoting Richard Stanley <[email protected]>: -- snipped -- > > > > > > Boston, > > >> I would toss this question out to the combustion experts on the stoves > > >> and > > >> biomass lists...here. > > >> > > >> I have not tried it out but I know that others must have by now. The idea > > >> is to get behind the reason for poor combustion Crispin if I have him > > >> correctly implies that there is no poor biomass fuel, only poor > > >> stoves...Thats one avenue which the stoves group is particularly good at. > > >> > > >> It may be that no one has ever successfully burned jatropa...but, > > >> personally, I would not bet on it. > > >> snipped The point of this digression is this: I have little doubt > > >> that > > >> if you were to venture out into the jatropa-using world (not just the > > >> development project world or institutional research world) but the > > >> user-on-the-ground world, you will probably discover how somebody > > >> somewhere > > >> has figured out a way to process it as fuel... > > >> > > >> The ideal is to do this and to frame your scientific investigations at > > >> the > > >> same time: to run the "field" investigation in parallel and > > >> collaboratively > > >> with the lab analysis. Then you get not only the best of both worlds as > > >> information and data sources: You form a link to-- and directly or > > >> indirectly- help to empower those who can not only benefit from the > > >> results > > >> but who can become teachers of others for the future. > > >> > > > > > > NOTE by PSA: This is what Pamoja is doing. > > > > > >> > > >> Then publish it with all your collaborrants, for the rest of us. It will > > >> be a great contribution ! > > >> > > >> Pressing on, > > >> > > >> Richard Stanley > > >> www.legacyfound.org > > >> Ashland Or. > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Boston Nyer wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Richard, > > >>> > > >>> I have a related question to this discussion, which I think is > > >>> interesting. > > >>> > > >>> At CU, we have a Jatropha project that you fielded some questions about > > >>> a > > >>> few months ago. As I'm sure you've heard, Jatropha seedcake does not > > >>> burn > > >>> well, not even close. So, one of our questions now is: what can we do > > >>> with > > >>> this waste stream this is both useful and desirable? > > >>> > > >>> One approach we will test is to carbonize the material and for biochar > > >>> briquettes (and a water filter media, etc.). However, I wholeheartedly > > >>> agree with your sentiment on biochar briquettes. What is your opinion > > >>> if > > >>> the ag-waste doesn't burn well normally? It still seems a bit > > >>> contrived, > > >>> eh? > > >>> > > >>> I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> Boston > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Boston Nyer > > Graduate Student > > Department of Civil, Environmental, and Architectural Engineering > > University of Colorado at Boulder > > (585) 503-3459 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110121/3ad864f1/attachment.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > [email protected] > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 5, Issue 21 > > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > [email protected] > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > >
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address Stoves mailing list to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/ [email protected] http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
