Dear François, Are you building a metal institutional rocket stove? Where would it be used? If yes, I guess you are following the plans on Peter Scott's website, there are several advices for an insulation : www.rocketstove.org. Clay is a good option.
I strongly recommend you not to use stainless steel for the combustion chamber, nor metal. It won't last long. We saw it with our stoves, we used conventional stainless steel. The chambers didn't last 2 months, they were deformed and ripped-off by the fire intensity. Stainless steel is expensive, it is even more if it is heat-resistant. I am not sure heat-resistant does last much longer either. Stoves in institutions are used several hours a day, sometimes almost all the time. I think strong ceramics or bricks should be always be used in institutional stoves, not metal. I believe others share this opinion on the list. I think short-lasting metal combustion chamber can make sense on a 5 dollars stove for the domestic market. So it can be easily manufactured, people can afford it, there can be a widespread adoption. But people expect institutional stoves, costing more than 100 $, to last longer. Xavier -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de [email protected] Envoyé : lundi 19 septembre 2011 10:43 À : [email protected] Objet : Stoves Digest, Vol 13, Issue 21 Send Stoves mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists .org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Lignite in Mississippi ([email protected]) 2. Re: Report on?APBC - first two days ([email protected]) 3. Re: [biochar] Re: Report on?APBC - first two days (Tom Miles Easystreet) 4. Re: Lignite in Mississippi (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott) 5. Re: [biochar] Re: Report on?APBC - first two days (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott) 6. Wood-ash as insulator (Fran?ois Sorba) 7. Re: [biochar] Re: Report on APBC - first two days (Bryan Hugill) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 01:51:09 +0000 (UTC) From: [email protected] To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lignite in Mississippi Message-ID: <316797695.1540959.1316397069358.javamail.r...@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.co mcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Stovers:?? ?? Read the information on a 65% reduction in CO2 carefully.? That is if they ever use CCS - which I doubt will ever happen.? We need to phase in wood (in the form of Biochar to get carbon negativity) instead.? Mississippi can do it. Ron ----- ??????? ----- ???: "The Bootstrapper" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] ????: 2011?9?19?, ??? ?? 9:03:18 ??: Re: [Stoves] Lignite in Mississippi Crispin, ? This plant is a scaled up version of an existing process.? More info on the Lignite plant at: http://www.mississippipower.com/kemper/TRIGTechnology.asp ? Additional information Links on this site... http://sequestration.mit.edu/tools/projects/kemper.html ? William Hatcher ? From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:56:31 -0400 Subject: [Stoves] Lignite in Mississippi Dear Friends ? Energy Company Southern reports they have patented and licensed a lignite burning power plant design that ?burns cleaner? than natural gas. It has been licensed to China. It was developed for a Mississippi-based coal deposit. The Boss man (CNBC interview) did not define ?cleaner?. ? My suspicion is that it is a fuel composition-related achievement. The H2 content of the fuel must be high. It also must be a statement conditioned on the combustion devices being defined in order to make the comparison. ? I am happy to hear that they have done at a large scale what we have done on a micro scale. I am willing to bet it is a combined cycle gasification mode power plant. The increased efficiency reduces the emissions per kW output. ? Regards Crispin ? _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110919/b9ab4780/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 02:04:04 +0000 (UTC) From: [email protected] To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> Cc: biochar-policy <[email protected]>, biochar <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Report on?APBC - first two days Message-ID: <1012621927.1541462.1316397844791.javamail.r...@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.c omcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Crispin etal ?see below ----- ??????? ----- ???: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <[email protected]> ????: 2011?9?17?, ??? ?? 7:55:17 ??: Re: [Stoves] Report on?APBC - first two days Dear Ron ? Very informative. Thanks for reporting. ? > ?? Questions? ? The more than 100 types of biochar: Are they significantly different in some respects? ?? RWL:? Many respects.? pH especially?ash content? especially rice husks, etc.?? They have used multi-variate analysis to break into four main groups that will (among other things) predict lifetime, best application rates, etc? (not yet ready for publication). Does the process used to produce it make more of a difference than the species? ?? RWL:? probably both.? Is the consistency of the product important for making predictable agricultural results??? ?? ?? RWL:? Yes ? That would guide the producers as to where they should put the most effort. ??? RWL:? T he pros in this area (not just Australia) a?e feeling?good about having it worked out pretty soon.? I heard one say it is a lot like applying different fertilizers, lime etc.? Until you have some testing, it looks mysterious. Ron ? Thanks Crispin ? _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110919/b9b65f29/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:46:02 +0900 From: Tom Miles Easystreet <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, biochar-policy <[email protected]>, Biochar-Ontario <[email protected]>, Discussion of biomass <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Re: Report on?APBC - first two days Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Ron for the summaries and for the excellent questions you always manage to pose to speakers. The Kansai Corporation rice husk gasifier is interesting. They feed 150 kg/hr husk at 2000 kcal/kg and get 50 kg/hr char. It is a stirred bed gasifier. Husks gasifying in the bed at about 600C. Air is added above the bed to burn the gases. Stack gas is 15% O2 so they use lots of excess air. About 30% of the heat input is recovered as hot water which is used in the bio oil process and in winter for heating. I was interested in the labeling of the 10kg bags. They indicate 40% carbon and 50% silica (SiO2). They also list macro elements in MG/kg. They provide separate instructions for use in gardens, horticultural crops, row cropland tees. Numbers of units and actual use are still not clear. I heard that Kansai Corp had installed 200 of these and made char from about 10% of their husk production of 100,000 tpy. I hope the presentations will clear up the confusion. But it is not clear when we will see presentations or written summaries. That is why I took a lot of pictures of slides. Tom T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc. [email protected] Sent from mobile. On Sep 19, 2011, at 10:38 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Lloyd. Biochar and stoves lists: > > This to provide a final recap of the fourth and last day of the Asian Pacific Biochar Conference (APBC2011). Attendance down to less than 25. > > > > There were five AM plenary talks (out of six? scheduled). The first was somewhat related ? a PhD level talk by an Indonesian getting his degree in Japan ? giving a highly mathematical talk (Hamiltonians). That ended up indicating they could use the technique to figure out how many trees to cut (for jobs for poorest). Nothing we can use yet. This might have been an award winner picked by the second group sponsoring/sharing the venue. A group called JAHES. Not much over lap with Biochar, but some. > > > > Next two talks were on the Cool Vege project being run by the JBA Erich has given leads to similar work by Steve McGreevy. General agreement that this was welcome ? to see strong commercial activity. This was topic of a tour in PM that I didn't attend. Maybe someone can add more. > > > > Next was Stephen Joseph who went through lots of good Biochar lists of different types (Markets, high value targets, integrating with RE, constraints,. This talk not on Australia. Then Joey talked of an IBI Roadmap and its needs. Started with recommendation to read recent paper by Melissa Leach. > > > > Debbie Reed was final speaker. Quite different from anything earlier ? by going through her concerns that recent marketing trends by groups like Walmart for environmental compliance could adversely impact small farmers ? and this could apply as well to Biochar products and their use. Only a problem statement ? not solutions. But something for all in Biochar interested in helping small farmers to start trying to solve. > > > > After lunch???o buses (about 25 each?) went for 50 + km trips. Others may be able to talk on the Cool Vege trip based on bamboo. I went with Tom Miles and family and 25? others to a rice husk charring operation. At least three from Australia including Adriana Downie. Tom took lots of pictures (after 4 days of most slides also). This has been in operation by a city owned recycling operation in Shiga prefecture for about 8 years. Heat captured and used for processing canola oil for diesel operation. Char in large bags available at (I think) 700 Yen (little less than $10) for 10 kg. Saw production at the rate of about 1 bag each 20 minutes. We could all get up real close ? even to touch (water-jacket cooled) char coming out. Pyrolyzer manufactured by the Kansai company ? with about 2000 similar around Japan (maybe handling 10% of all Japanese rice husks), with some appreciably larger than this one. This being mentioned to emphasize long history of commercial Biochar operations in Japanese ? whereas very recent US GAO report has Biochar listed as meriting a ?2? on a scale of 1 to 9. I put anything at 10% of a market at an 8 at least. > > > > The recycling center might be the most advanced in Japan. A major tourist attraction, with lots of small gimmicks /trinkets/food for sale. The whole process started (in '80s??) with detergent-caused algae bloom in nearby largest lake in Japan (we could see in distance from their observation deck ? along with mostly rice fields on all directions). The group started manufacturing their own soap as phosphorous-based detergents soon thereafter disappeared from the market. When better detergents reappeared (we need some in US now) they switched to making bio-diesel. Rice husks needed for part of still on-going biodiesel production. Hey use both waste oil and virgin canola oil, I believe. > > > > All of Japan apparently now separates household waste into 11 different categories. To save on pickup fuel expenses, this prefecture is organized such that the waste is brought in by local neighborhoods and here separated into more than 11 categories. We didn't see that ? only long description of biodiesel history and then the Biochar part. We got also to walk into field where biochar vs compost test was going on. - with soy bean plants. > > > > I shared bus ride with one of two (?) Chinese at conference. I learned that there are five separate Biochar organizations in China. IBI lists 2 I think. Possibility that Robert Flanagan may today be in a different ?Asian country? Anyone know? > > > > I predict great things for Biochar out of China ? and my seatmate didn't deny the possibility. They have the skills, the available biomass and needy farmers (whose government is trying to help, the need for carbon negativity, and they have lots of ?spare? money. He said the Chinese farmers he works with are ready ? as long as they can be shown good economics. > > > > > > I am having difficulties with web access ? and so will add here responses to Lloyd Helferty's questions: > > > > 1) No mention of Canadian biochar companies ? but also none from US. Stephen's job was only to give a country report for Australia. The obvious question is how many worldwide and my guess is that we are over fifty by now ? but maybe someone like Kelpie can give a better count from IBI perspective. This again emphasizing that the US GAO didn't do a good job when it gives Biochar a ?2? out of 9 on commercial readiness as a geoengineering technology. > > > > 2) I missed most of the Thai report (after a break) ? and so apologize. Tom Miles have anything? The main APBC handout did not list the names of the country presenters. We received a one page handout ? which I now can't find. Maybe others can help. > > > > 3) Same for your question on the speaker from Taiwan. There was some indication that the third APBC meeting will be in Taiwan. > > > > 4) See comment on Flanagan above. I think there was just a communication glitch re China. My seatmate led me to believe that China is making good progress. He did not know Robert. F. > > 5) I had hoped to reconnect with the forester from Mongolia, but he was not present on last day. He is a PhD and appeared very concerned ? and looking for help. I believe Karl Frogner is limiting his Mongolian liaisons to NGOs, but the forester showed some of Karl's work, so there may be some interaction.. > > > I have googled for forestry in Mpngolia and found that the country is listed by FAO as 17% forest. This is among the least densely populated countries ? so that 17% might be plenty.. With Ulanbaatar being so heavily polluted by coal stoves, this could be a place with much potential for making char. I think he may have been saying so the previous day. He also described huge piles of sheep manure. Biochar could be a big help in reforestation/afforestation. Forestry is an export item ? although dwarfed by the country's coal resources ? which we have to find a way to keep in the ground. > > > > 6) Cool Vege char seems to only/mainly be associated with bamboo. It is a weed throughout Japan and felt needs to be harvested to preserve (not diminish) biodiversity. Problem is that the rural villages are now mostly populated by elderly and bamboo harvesting is not easy work. This is not yet a panacea ? but lots of interest in this first attempt worldwide to tie Char closely to climate topics.through a commercial ad campaign. At least 4-5 talks on this topic.. Key seems to be a 20 Yen (28 cent) label that is attached to any produce packge? with half going back to the farmers for the extra ?climate? effort. > > > > 7) Thanks to Erich for giving leads to McGreevy's work. Stephen was a part of the organizing team and personally helpful to me (with no credit card capability and little cash), so thanks again to those who helped me get to Vietnam with a little cash in my pocket. > > > > Ron > > > ???: "Lloyd Helferty" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected], "biochar-policy" <[email protected]>, "Discussion of biomass" <[email protected]>, "Biochar-Ontario" <[email protected]> > ????: 2011?9?19?, ??? ?? 1:48:28 > ??: Re: [biochar] Re: Report on?APBC - first two days > > Thanks again, Ron. > I'll be looking for more detail about some of the points you brought up, namely: > > 1) Of the "10 companies getting some mention" from Stephen Joseph, were any Canadian? > > 2) P.S. Interesting note about "a lot of activity in Thailand". The first time I heard about Biochar activities in Thailand was through correspondence with Bryan Hugill, who is also a member of Biochar Ontario. > > 2a) ... Although, the work in Thailand might also be the result of collaboration with the Japanese. > I noted that Professor Kaneyuki Nakane in the Graduate School of Biosphere Sciences, Hiroshima University (within the Division of Environmental Dynamics and Management) was "making a lot of ongoing projects in Thailand" with "bamboo charcoal"... > Professor Nakane is the guy who did the fantastic Rooftop Garden project(s) with Biochar (in collaboration with the Banks, which use greenroofs to keep the buildings that house ATMs cooler, and therefore reduce energy requirements). > http://www.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/top/research_HU/researchnow/no12/ > See also the section starting about half way down the page about "The Hilltribe People of Thailand and Burma..." > > 2b) I believe that the people of Thailand could probably teach us a thing or two about Biochar by now also... > I read once that the King of Thailand had ordered rescue workers to "spray the bodies with (powdered) Biochar" after Thailand experienced a tsunami -- "because the Biochar will 'deodorize' the decaying bodies in minutes" -- and also because the Biochar "invites Beneficial microorganisms as decomposters" (once the bodies are buried). > > 3) I would love to see that report from Taiwan. (As you know, I have 'close ties' to Taiwan... and had not really heard much of anything from that island nation about any Biochar research ~ although I read once that Dynamotive was at one point supposedly ?developing two plants in Taiwan", in cooperation with a company called Marketech International Corporation.) > > 4) I find it very interesting that there are no reports coming out of China, considering that Rob Flanagan had helped a Chinese company create one of the very first "NPK-C Biochar Fertilizers"... > > 5) Very interesting that "a Governmental forester" reported from Mongolia. (I didn't think that there were enough trees in Mongolia for the government to actually hire a "forester"... perhaps his job title should be "reforester" or "afforester". ;-) > -- just kidding > > 6) What is "the Cool-Vege concept" from Japan? > > > Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist > Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada) > www.biochar-consulting.ca > 603-48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada > 905-707-8754; 647-886-8754 (cell) > Skype: lloyd.helferty > Steering Committee member, Canadian Biochar Initiative > President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario > Advisory Committee Member, IBI > http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717 > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675 > http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario > http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/ > http://grassrootsintelligence.blogspot.com > www.biochar.ca > > Biochar Offsets Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475 > "Necessity may be the mother of invention, but innovators need to address problems before they become absolute necessities..." > > On 2011-09-17 7:14 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Biochar and stoves lists: > > This to provide a short recap of the third day of the Asian Pacific Biochar Conference (APBC2011). > > > > The day was again partly (mostly) in English and partly in Japanese (with translations and headsets). Very good translators. Most of the Asian countries gave a talk. The starter was Stephen Joseph for Australia. His was unusual in that it concentrated on corporate activity ? at least 10 companies getting some mention. There were many research papers earlier and few earlier on the privates sector (exception being Adriana Downie and PacPyro mentioned yesterday). I asked Stephen about organized opposition to Biochar and he said none/little. He responded part -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110919/63fd968e/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 23:38:30 -0400 From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Lignite in Mississippi Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many thanks William They note: "With TRIGT, the IGCC facility in Kemper County will turn Mississippi lignite into gas while cleaning emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides and mercury to near natural-gas levels. It also will produce 65 percent less carbon dioxide emissions than the current pulverized coal plants." And I note that they are in fact using a coal gasification process and calculating their CO2 emissions on a kW generated basis. It is a far better system efficiency than a single step process but it certainly comes at a cost. There was initial talk about putting one into Ulaanbaatar as they 520 MW plant is getting close to capacity. It is pretty expensive. The inherent emissions of mercury etc are already removable. I note they are talking at Southern of carbon capture. Perhaps someone will pay them to do that too. Regards Crispin ++++++= Crispin, This plant is a scaled up version of an existing process. More info on the Lignite plant at: http://www.mississippipower.com/kemper/TRIGTechnology.asp Additional information Links on this site... http://sequestration.mit.edu/tools/projects/kemper.html William Hatcher _____ From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:56:31 -0400 Subject: [Stoves] Lignite in Mississippi Dear Friends Energy Company Southern reports they have patented and licensed a lignite burning power plant design that 'burns cleaner' than natural gas. It has been licensed to China. It was developed for a Mississippi-based coal deposit. The Boss man (CNBC interview) did not define 'cleaner'. My suspicion is that it is a fuel composition-related achievement. The H2 content of the fuel must be high. It also must be a statement conditioned on the combustion devices being defined in order to make the comparison. I am happy to hear that they have done at a large scale what we have done on a micro scale. I am willing to bet it is a combined cycle gasification mode power plant. The increased efficiency reduces the emissions per kW output. Regards Crispin _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists .org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110918/77b6fcdc/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 23:38:30 -0400 From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Cc: 'biochar-policy' <[email protected]>, 'Biochar-Ontario' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Re: Report on?APBC - first two days Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Tom for those numbers. They are burning 150 kg/hr and getting 20 kg of carbon in the final result. Do you have any idea what the moisture content of the feedstock is? Do you know if the silica has any ?medicinal? benefit? There are people putting ground rock dust on fields and forests claiming benefits so I wondered if that was related. Thanks Crispin ++++++ The Kansai Corporation rice husk gasifier is interesting. They feed 150 kg/hr husk at 2000 kcal/kg and get 50 kg/hr char. It is a stirred bed gasifier. Husks gasifying in the bed at about 600C. Air is added above the bed to burn the gases. Stack gas is 15% O2 so they use lots of excess air. About 30% of the heat input is recovered as hot water which is used in the bio oil process and in winter for heating. I was interested in the labeling of the 10kg bags. They indicate 40% carbon and 50% silica (SiO2). They also list macro elements in MG/kg. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110918/3c53b21f/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:03:42 +0300 From: Fran?ois Sorba <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [Stoves] Wood-ash as insulator Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello everyone, I am currently trying to build a wood saving stove (rocket stove model). All the info I gathered are saying to use wood-ash as an insulator between the outside layer of sheet metal and the L-shaped combustion chamber. Do you know if I could replace wood-ash by anything else ? Something easy to come by? Something like dry sand for instance ? Thanks! Fran?ois -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20110919/fe11a355/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:42:08 +0200 From: Bryan Hugill <[email protected]> To: Lloyd Helferty <[email protected]> Cc: biochar-policy <[email protected]>, Biochar-Ontario <[email protected]>, [email protected], Discussion of biomass <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Re: Report on APBC - first two days Message-ID: <cagfovylmolqeq+xksc+ug3kfhlcnau4fo0w5nrh1phousa+...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Dear Lloyd, The most significant type of biochar that's I've seen in Thailand has been the use of charred rice husk (no shortage of that feedstock in Thailand!), which has been used as long as people can remember. The largest user has been the horticultural sector; however, I have also seen char being made from various other agricultural waste feedstocks and there's murmuring of the introduction of biochar cookstoves in my province (all happening at a relatively small-scale though, but repeated a HUGE number of times). Re. the charcoal side of things, Thailand has a fairly long history of charcoal production from all manner of feedstocks, although the most common today are eucalyptus, rubberwood (sometimes), bamboo (through the Japanese influence), and another wood type that I am unable to recognise as yet (no mangroves in my area, so I don't know the extent to which they're being used). There is also some collection of wood smoke distillate, but the market is still very small (read: the fertilizer and pesticides industries are still too strong). Karl Frogner has also been involved in some biochar production/use work in Thailand (in collaboration with Kasetsaert University), although I don't know the status of the project at the moment. And, looking at the agenda for the Kyoto Biochar Conference, I also see that Kasetsaert University is involved in more biochar work, although us "little people" have yet to actually see anything come out. Something that may be of interest to you is that we're in the process of putting together a farmers network in our province and I'd like to begin trialling rice husk biochar through it in a more targeted way (currently, there are 3,500 farmers interested), so I hope to have some solid data/results coming up in the next few years :) This will be done in conjunction with various other soil amendments, growing methods, crop types, and lab testing of soil mineral content and crop nutritional content (depending on the health of my bank account, as this will all be self financed until we can find a donor/sponsor), so hopefully there'll be some good stuff in there. Cheers, Bryan _________________ Bryan Hugill Co-founder and Environmental Manager RAITONG ORGANICS FARM Tel: +66 (0)85 915 0961 E-mail: [email protected] Skype: bryan_hugill www.raitongorganics.com www.khaosrikram.com www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=140808370801 LET'S GO ORGANIC FOR A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT AND GOOD HEALTH! On 18 September 2011 18:48, Lloyd Helferty <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks again, Ron. > I'll be looking for more detail about some of the points you brought up, > namely: > > 1) Of the "*10 companies* getting some mention" from Stephen Joseph, were > any *Canadian*? > > 2) P.S. Interesting note about "*a lot of activity in Thailand*". The > first time I heard about Biochar activities in Thailand was through > correspondence with *Bryan Hugill*, who is also a member of *Biochar > Ontario*. > > 2a) ... Although, the work in Thailand might also be the result of *collaboration > with the Japanese*. > I noted that Professor *Kaneyuki Nakane* in the Graduate School of > Biosphere Sciences, Hiroshima University (within the Division of > Environmental Dynamics and Management) was "*making a lot of ongoing > projects in Thailand*" with "bamboo charcoal"... > Professor Nakane is the guy who did the fantastic *Rooftop Garden*project(s) with Biochar (in collaboration with the Banks, which use > greenroofs to *keep the buildings that house ATMs cooler*, and therefore *reduce > energy requirements*). > http://www.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/top/research_HU/researchnow/no12/ > See also the section starting about half way down the page about "*The > Hilltribe People of Thailand* and Burma..." > > 2b) I believe that the people of Thailand could probably teach us a thing > or two about Biochar by now also... > I read once that the King of Thailand had ordered rescue workers to "spray > the bodies with (powdered) Biochar" after Thailand experienced a *tsunami*-- "because the Biochar will 'deodorize' the decaying bodies in minutes" -- > and also because the Biochar "invites Beneficial microorganisms as > decomposters" (once the bodies are buried). > > 3) I would love to see that *report from Taiwan*. (As you know, I have > 'close ties' to Taiwan... and had not really heard much of anything from > that island nation about any Biochar research ~ although I read once that > *Dynamotive* was at one point supposedly ?developing two plants in > Taiwan", in cooperation with a company called *Marketech International > Corporation*.) > > 4) I find it very interesting that there are no reports coming out of > China, considering that *Rob Flanagan* had helped a Chinese company create > one of the very first "*NPK-C Biochar Fertilizers*"... > > 5) Very interesting that "a Governmental *forester*" reported from > Mongolia. (I didn't think that there were enough trees in Mongolia for the > government to actually hire a "forester"... perhaps his job title should be > "reforester" or "afforester". ;-) > -- just kidding > > 6) What is "the *Cool-Vege *concept" from Japan? > > Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist > Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada) > www.biochar-consulting.ca > 603-48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada > 905-707-8754; 647-886-8754 (cell) > Skype: lloyd.helferty > Steering Committee member, Canadian Biochar Initiative > President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario > Advisory Committee Member, IBI > http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717 > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675 > http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario > http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/ > http://grassrootsintelligence.blogspot.com > www.biochar.ca > > Biochar Offsets Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475 > "Necessity may be the mother of invention, but innovators need to address problems before they become absolute necessities..." > > > On 2011-09-17 7:14 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Biochar and stoves lists: > > This to provide a short recap of the third day of the Asian Pacific > Biochar Conference (APBC2011). > > > > The day was again partly (mostly) in English and partly in Japanese (with > translations and headsets). Very good translators. Most of the Asian > countries gave a talk. The starter was Stephen Joseph for Australia. His > was unusual in that it concentrated on corporate activity - at least 10 > companies getting some mention. There were many research papers earlier and > few earlier on the privates sector (exception being Adriana Downie and > PacPyro mentioned yesterday). I asked Stephen about organized opposition to > Biochar and he said none/little. He responded partly in terms of early > strong support from former PM Malcolm Turnbull - and new government has not > changed that. > > > > I won't go through each (my notes are not so good), but I remember being > surprised at a lot of activity in Thailand, and good work in the > Philippines. ( I was surprised that there was no report from Vietnam (where > I will be for next three weeks), as Australian Peter Slavich (working full > time in Aid project in Vietnam) in earlier private conversation said there > was a long history of using spent charred rice husks - and he knew of work > of Paul Olivier (who I will be visiting). > > > > Good report sfrom Taiwan and New Zealand; none from China. Report from > Mongolia by a Governmental forester, not from Karl Frogner and his UBI > group (Karl had a paper). > > > > The last two country talks were for Japan. First was entirely on the > Cool-Vege concept. > > Later Prof Ogawa gave excellent Plenary talk - entirely on the extensive > Biochar history in Japan. > > > > Prof. Johannes gave his usual great talk. Said he was delighted with > progress and optimistic. That Biochar unknowns are like for any other ag > area. > > > > I have run out of time. More later. > > > > Ron > > ------------------------------ > > *???: *[email protected] > *To: *"biochar-policy" <[email protected]><[email protected]>, > "biochar" <[email protected]> <[email protected]>, "Discussion > of biomass" <[email protected]><[email protected]> > *????: *2011?9?17?, ??? ?? 7:48:44 > *??: *Report on APBC - first two days > > Biochar and stoves lists: > > This to provide a short recap of the first two days of the Asian Pacific > Biochar Conference (APBC2011) > > Maybe 100 persons here - maybe 75 to 80 percent Japanese.. > > > > Regular contributors to these two lists who are here include Tom Miles > (and wife and son), John Miedema, and Karl Frogner. Apologies to other > list members I don't recognize. At least 10 other people I judge from > Australia (Stephen Joseph, Lukas van Zwieten, Adraian Downie, and Annett > Cowie being some I knew previously). The final Plenary speaker of first > day was Evelyn Krull who gave a wonderful description of the great Biochar > work going on in Australia (all or mostly CSIRO??). They are working with > 104 different chars - and identifying what makes each unique (temperature, > species, etc) > > > > I know two here from Europe - maybe a few more. Others from US (not > or rarely writing to these lists are IBI's Debbie Reed and Johannes > Lehmann). The names of presenters are available at the APBC site. Two > stoves/Biochar list contributors who are in program but couldn't make it are > Kelpie Wilson and Jason Aramburo (and who are missed). > > > > The first day, Thursday, was in both Japanese and English - with > everyone having earphones for the alternating translation need. The > outstanding talk for me was by IBI's Debbie Reed - giving an exciting > summary of the growth of IBI. About 11,000 hits on the website per month > now - and 50% are new first time users each month. Still plenty of growth > in Biochar technical literature, etc. Debbie gave more background and > status on the forthcoming IBI draft standards. Last night, I attended part > of an ad hoc meeting on the standards - which should be available within > weeks at the IBI site (for four weeks comment period). Obviously a lot of > work has gone into these standards - but a lot more still to be done. > > > > Yesterday was all in 20 minute presentations in three parallel tracks. > The majority of the papers seemed to be soil-production related. > Unfortunately (my giving a talk) I missed several coming from Lukas van > Zwieten's NSW group on success with N20 capture, but he says that is showing > continued importance. Quite a few talks that relate to the Science article > by Dr. Wardle; no firm answers yet - but conversely I heard nothing that > supports the Wardle contention that Biochar causes excess CO2 release. > Adriana Downie gave several talks on her progress towards a new ?PacPyro? > firm that has just received a major multi-million grant and is going > public. I enjoyed a talk on LCA given by CSIRO's Annette Cowie. > > > > Today I expect to learn a lot more about Japanese Biochar work as we get > back to a single Plenary format and translation. Much evidence of Japan > having done Biochar work for a long time - with a government-sanctioned > program since the 1980's. Also Johannes is scheduled for 40 minutes. > > > > Many new people to meet. Have enjoyed especially two potential funders > from the ADB and FAO and researchers from the Philippines, Korea, and > Uganda. And of course many from Japan. > > > > The city of Kyoto is exceptionally modern and well maintained - a major > tourist town. Prices seem close to double those I am used to. A cash > economy - with my having major difficulties with no (presently valid) ATM > card! Thanks to three listed above who could take my check in exchange for > Yen! > > > > Questions? > > > > Ron > __._,_.___ > Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Report%20on%E3%80%80APBC%20 -%20first%20two%20days>| Reply > to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Report%20on%E3%80%80APBC%20-%2 0first%20two%20days>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaGNlcWl1BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxMjkyOARzZWM DZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMTYzMDEyNjc-?act=reply&messageNum=12928>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmczRwbWVrBF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudH BjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTYzMDEyNjc-> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/12926;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NzEzN TFyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxM jkyOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTYzMDEyNjcEdHBjSWQDMTI5MjY->( > 3) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnanN2MXI0B F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsa wN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzE2MzAxMjY3?o=6> > 3 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdnU3OGwxBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN 0aW1lAzEzMTYzMDEyNjc-> > MARKETPLACE > A bad score is 598. 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