Dear Paal, "Charity and subsidising has not solved any long term poverty problems in the world rather opposite. Mass production and marked economy has not ether solved any problem of poverty." That is very right, in my opinion, we have : - Charity and subsidising : a bad tool for a good purpose - Mass production and marked economy : a good tool for a bad purpose (making money)
Now we have the good purpose, we know people need good stoves, we are sure about that. But we still need to find the tool to achieve that. Market economy might well be that tool. One thing is sure, it is a powertool. "Coca Cola with it?s coloured water and sugar is mentioned, what long term poverty problem has that solved?" None, but it excels at one thing : customer assent. No or very few stoves can say that, to my knowledge. Have you ever bothered to look at the top 20 companies in terms of turnover? None of them are sustainable, in fact they are just the opposite : oil and gas (mostly), finance companies ... I do not say they are evil (or are they? :) ), because they are useful. But they promote an unsustainable way of living. How come life-saving products like stoves are not on top of the list? Because of what we said, TVs, cell phones, motorbikes and products for a quick pleasure are always the priority. We need to look at the success of these companies to understand what to trigger in the customers mind. Cheers, Xavier -----Message d'origine----- ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:40:36 +0100 From: "Paal wendelbo" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [Stoves] re stove cost Message-ID: <7B03389EB1EB4F2FBB5B04F41C223EEB@firmanav10a4e1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Dear stovers Charity and subsidising has not solved any long term poverty problems in the world rather opposite. Mass production and marked economy has not ether solved any problem of poverty. Coca Cola with it?s coloured water and sugar is mentioned, what long term poverty problem has that solved? GACC with it?s 100M FES and clean burning stove program has an unique possibility to do something for the poor in developing countries but not with charity and subsidizing . Following this discussion on the list I feel there is a need of rethinking of the whole task. Household energy is felt different by people trying to survive on 2 $ day and those with 200 $ a day. And I feel the documentation of Cecil Cook about charcoal consumption in Lusaka could be a good foundation for further discussion. Dr.TLUD Anderson and Dean Still know exactly how simple the technique of clean combustion is. With one or two empty tin cans, a 4? nail and a hammer it?s possible to make an excellent clean burning device at no cost to be put under the pot for cooking and which can utilise a lot of different types of fuel. The only obstacles to this is there will be no need of charity and no need of subsidizing and no money to make for the rich world and the Chinese mass producers So why not start in the other end. Start to train schoolchildren on all levels in clean combustion and how to obtain it. Train different types of biomass fuel to be used in the tins and how to collect it and hove to make briquettes etc. All this children will after some few years will be users of household energy. Some will be tinsmiths; some will be fuel producers and some selling more advanced stoves for biomass fuel. What are the obstacles to carry out such a program to almost no cost? With regards Paal W -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/a ttachments/20111122/8ba67111/attachment-0001.html> _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
