*Dear Stovers,* * * *Just to keep the record straight, we have been working on ethanol lanterns and stoves since 1980s. Stovers might be interested in the following publications.* * * *www.nariphaltan.org/ruralethanol.pdf* * * *www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf* * * *www.nariphaltan.org/housenergy.htm* * * *www.nariphaltan.org/lanstove.pdf* * * *www.nariphaltan.org/ethstove.pdf This stove is being produced on large scale in Indonesia for sales in ASEAN countries.* * * *Cheers.* * * *Anil * On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Lloyd Helferty <[email protected]>wrote:
> Ron, > > I have also corresponded quite extensively with Mr. Harry Stokes a > couple of years ago at about the time I was supporting Nathaniel Mulcahy > and his initial Stove project work in Haiti after the earthquake. > > Harry had noted at the time that 3 billion liters of hydrous ethanol are > traded through the Caribbean from Brazil every year, yet he had noted that > there are a number of major ethanol producers in Central America and the > Caribbean who are constrained to consistently under-produce because of the > want of a market. > > He noted that " *If these countries could produce and sell into a > domestic stove fuel market, they could again produce for a market that > would justify a robust agricultural base. With a healthy agricultural > sector and the application of best practices, they could rebuild their > soils and croplands, which now lie fallow.*" > (This was Harry's "Build Back Better" approach... as was being promoted > by Bill Clinton after the earthquake: a pathway to sustainability for > Haiti.) > > At the time I was also in conversation with Roger Samson of REAP Canada, > and I had suggested to Mr. Stokes that he might also wish to consider using > Agave was as the feedstock for producing liquid fuels (ethanol etc), which, > according to Arturo Velez, can produce 3X more sugars than sugarcane, while > thriving on drylands / "marginal land" (it thrives with only 190mm of rain > per year and can produce very high yields with very low or no inputs) and > could potentially achieve massive production due to year-around harvesting > and World-wide geographical distribution (Drylands cover about 40% of the > Earth's surface; >60 million square Km, @ ~20% of US territory and >75% of > Mexico). > [Harry had suggested Sweet sorghum instead since it is a dryland crop > that builds soil fertility very effectively. ~ I believe that he was also > working with the International Institute for Ecological Agriculture (IIEA) > and looking into other 'dryland' feedstocks such as Giant Milkweed and > Prosopis (mesquite).] > > While Harry was working with a core team of developers to raise capital > for a business that would essentially mass produce small, efficient, simple > but highly engineered "micro distilleries" (for places like Haiti), I had > noted that the leftover "bagasse" from these distilleries could also be > used to make Biochar. > > I had originally suggested that the enormous amounts of bagasse that > result from the production of sustainable alcohols from drylands feedstocks > could be processed in such a way as to produce other liquid fuels > (bio-oils) industrially (in systems such as those produced by companies > like Agritherm, ABRI Tech or Ensyn) -- such that massive quantities of both > bio-oil and Biochar could be produced (and sequestered)... however, if > CPB could also convert this bagasse into another type of liquid fuel (the > 'N100' that could in turn be used in engines and other types of bio-liquid > fuel stoves), we could truly achieve very substantial "carbon negativity". > > Regards, > > Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist > Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada) > www.biochar-consulting.ca > 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada > 905-707-8754 > CELL: 647-886-8754 > Skype: lloyd.helferty > Steering Committee coordinator > Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI) > President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario > Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit! www.urbanagsummit.org > See also: http://www.facebook.com/UrbanAgSummit > Manager, Biochar Offsets Group: > http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475 > Advisory Committee Member, IBI > http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717 > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675 > http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario > http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/ > http://www.biocharontario.ca > www.biochar.ca > > "The history of every nation is eventually written in the way it cares for > its soil." > - Franklin D. Roosevelt > > > On 2012-08-10 5:24 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > List: > > 1. A short time ago, I sent in a brief announcement (below) about > Harry Stokes. Without committing him, I think he supports the following > as a new way to obtain and promote this list's emphasis: improved biomass > stoves for developing countries. > > 2. The following idea naturally follows from last week's successful > Biochar conference in Sonoma. This conference has been discussed some on > the sister Biochar lists, but not here, although there were several persons > presenting there on stoves. Presumably most stoves list members interested > in Biochar already know all about that other list - but for others, I > recommend a look at this site (save it - it doesn't pop up in Google > searches) > > http://2012.biochar.us.com/299/2012-us-biochar-conference-presentations > > 3. For many at the conference, I think the most important new Biochar > material related to a new company, that had not presented previously at > Biochar meetings (probably because they are better known as a biofuels > company). But they advertise a fuel they call N100 - which means 100 > Percent as much carbon negativity as carbon neutrality. I think the main > buzz was because they are well funded by some very big players. This and a > bit more (I recommend the 14 minute video by corporate founder Mike Cheiky) > on the company (shorthand CPB) are at: > www.coolplanetbiofuels.com > > 4. There was no discussion at the Sonoma meeting nor is there any > discussion at the CPB web site of using their biofuel product for our list > interest: rural biomass cookstoves. Emphasizing their bioliquids also for > stoves could be a big winner - along the lines of what Harry Stokes has > been doing. The big difference from Stokes' work is that char and carbon > negativity automatically follow with use of the CPB fuels - not possible > with any other bioliquidfuel I am aware of. I emphasize "automatic" - > the char is a left-over but can contain half the initial carbon (30% char > by weight is being stated). Surprisingly, there is very little release of > CO2 during production, and some or much is exothermic. > > 5. The CPB website gives plenty of reasons they can be successful - > but none related to stoves. My reasons for thinking that their's could be > a successful approach for stove use are: > a. The CPB biofuel is already being planned to be produced in > developing countries. Rather than importing fossil kerosene, LPG, propane, > etc with inevitably rising prices - the CPB fuels will be least cost at the > point of manufacture, near to the stove users. Maybe even able to use a > biofuel for cooking that is slightly substandard for engines. > b. Char-making stoves have many positive attributes (that I have > been promoting for 17 + years), but a bioliquids fuel approach can probably > always be cleaner, more adjustable (turn-down ratio), be adaptable to > multiple pots and will not be batch-limited. > c. Char-making stoves will hopefully soon be eligible for carbon > credits, but dealing with small single family or even village scale > auditing violates all we know about existing credit hurdles. A large > entity (CPB or someone they sell equipment to) will already be well > equipped to work for carbon neutral credits; adding carbon negative > credits from their co-product Biochar will be easier than for any other > industry group I can think of. > d. Cooks in developing countries are already choosing liquid fuel > stoves - when they can be afforded. There are existing supply chains for > fuel and stoves. LPG fuels are already in short supply. > e. I think it possible for the barter system that Nat Mulcahy > (WorldStoves) has developed to also work here. A wood gatherer can > exchange the raw materials for a bioliquid - and (a guess?) do less wood > gathering than at present. This time savings will be complemented by time > savings while cooking with a liquid fuel. And health issues. The same > firm supplying the CPB carbon-negative biofuel can also supply a > (hopefully) low cost (and probably pre-primed) Biochar with the same barter > exchange of ag wastes, etc. > f. Char-making stoves work best in a rural environment. But the > majority of potential users of any future carbon negative biofuel are now > living in cities - where the price competition for a carbon negative form > of cooking is easiest > g. Lastly and most important to me - I have argued strongly on > this list for a total prohibition of charcoal-using stoves because they are > so wasteful. This approach could help in policing the presently largely > illegal production of char. Since CPB will be precharging their char for > ag purposes, it would be incredibly stupid to burn that char. Char for ag > use is likely to look more different as well as just being too small for > cooking. > > 6. What should be the impact of the above on other stove types discussed > on this list? > a. I think this biofuels approach might help as a backup for solar > cookers. Biomass supply will always be insufficient if we get serious > about excess atmospheric carbon - so a combined solar-liquids approach > could be a least cost approach. > b. Of course, I hope a biofuel stove kills all use of fossil fuels > for cooking or heating - because of my perceived need to get quickly to 350 > ppm. My hope would be that coal use in Ulan Bataa, for instance, might > prove to be more expensive than the use of wood from northern Mongolia, > since the biofuel being moved is so energy dense, easily stored, cleaner, > etc. > The use of existing propane, natural gas, kerosene, etc stoves will be > killed only if the CPB fuels are cheaper - and this seems likely eventually > if not right now (according to the CPB website). > c. I think liquid-fueled stoves are likely to prove much better in > all regards to all present wood-burning (including Rocket stoves) re cost, > air quality, efficiency, etc, if the assumptions above hold (on time spent > looking for fuel, etc). This needs more analysis. > d. Cooking using methane from biodigesters might be a close call. > Those stoves are not generating the char that I find so important, but > putting char in digesters for "conditioning" seems very promising. The > main difference could be in the perception of the time being used each way. > e. As to char-making stoves, the improvement is not so obvious for > rural cooks having plenty of wood, time, and need for char. Regardless, it > is better to have multiple options and there will be many countries or > parts of countries, that wouldn't see internal generation of a carbon > negative biofuel for a long time. A huge market therefore remains for > char-making stoves. And something may not be correct in this initial > review of what looks like a promising addition to our list topic - cooking > with biomass. > > 7. So this is to request your reaction to pushing this different way to > promote Biochar production and use in family cooking in developing > countries. I will forward your thoughts to CPB. There could be > companies formed around this idea and I hope there are. I won't be doing > so. For me, the basic question is whether more Biochar might be put in > the ground if cooking were done with liquids made from biomass, rather > than cooking with that same biomass in any other type of stove. > > Ron > > ------------------------------ > *From: *[email protected] > *To: *"Discussion of biomass" > <[email protected]><[email protected]> > *Cc: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26:24 PM > *Subject: *[Stoves] Award for Harry Stokes > > List: > > For a different reason that I will write on soon, I was searching some > (excellent) stove material on Harry's web site, and found notice of his > winning a prestigious bioenergy 2012 award. See > > http://www.projectgaia.com/blog/2012/06/06/pgi-executive-director-harry-stokes-selected-as-2012-world-bioenergy-award-winner/ > > I first met Harry at the (first in 2000?) stove conference in Pune, > India. Harry's specialty - almost alone - is in pushing liquid fuels > (mostly ethanol and methanol) for cooking in developing countries. He is, > of course, emphasizing those fuels from biomass rather than fossil > sources. Look at his web site for some of the projects now underway. > > Congratulations to a well-deserving winner. > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web > pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web > site:http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road P.O.Box 44 Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India Ph:91-2166-222396/220945 e-mail:[email protected] [email protected] http://www.nariphaltan.org
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