Anand, I really like the way you explain what happens in the soil.
Paul On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Anand Karve <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Tom. > the minerals in the soil have very low solubility. If soil is stirred > in water, most minerals would dissolve in water, but they show > concentration of only 2 to 15 ppm. Plants are inefficient in absorbing > minerals from such a dilute solution, but the microbes are much more > efficient. The concentration of these solutions is in dynamic > equilibrium, so that the molecules absorbed by the microbes are > immediately replaced by molecules from the pool of the undissolved > minerals going into solution. Thus there is an unlimited supply of > minerals in the soil. When one appliess high calorie organic matter to > the soil, the microbes proliferate by feeding on this carbon source. > In that process they absorb from the soil solution all the minerals > that they need. There exists in the soil a food chain, whereby the > amoebae eat the bacteria, the annelids eat the amoebae, and the > insects eat the annelids. There are also fungi in this food chain. At > each step, there is a reduction in the carbon content, which is > released into the atmosphere in the form of CO2, and a corresponding > amount of minerals are also released into the soil. These minerals, > now in the form of organic compounds, are water soluble and they are > taken up by plants. This would show you, that one has only to induce > the microbes in the soil to proliferate in order to make the minerals > available to plants. It would support all kinds of micro and > macroflora, irrespective of the category of microbes that get > multiplied. It took me several years of meditation before I could > solve this riddle. > Yours > A.D.Karve > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tom Miles <[email protected]> wrote: > > AD > > > > When the crops are fed a high caloric organic matter does that limit the > > crops to only those that are suited to those organisms? Or does organic > > farming change the soil biology to accommodate a wider range of crops? > > > > Biochar has been used as a carrier to improve or restore the populations > of > > suitable organisms that have been reduced by chemical applications. > Minerals > > like rock dust are sometime included in the mix. > > > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of > > Anand Karve > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:36 AM > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info ! > > > > Dear Frans, > > The nature of the micro-organisms living in any given soil depends on > > the nature of the soil. If you applied sugar to a soil and incubated > > it, you would find only such organisms multiply, that can survive in > > that particular soil. Thus, if the soil is phosphate deficient, only > > phosphate solubilizing bacteria would survive in it. If the soil were > > nitrogen deficient, only nitrogen-fixing bacteria would survive in it. > > In the case of the vertisol soils in our region, the soil pH is above > > 8.5. In this soil, the iron is in a trivalent form, which is not > > available to the plants. Therefore, farmers are asked to apply iron > > sulphate to their fields. But if you applied sugar to this soil, the > > microbes that would be multiplied are those able to take up the > > trivalent iron from the soil and convert it into divalent iron. Survey > > of farmers who practice organic farming showed me, that the crops in > > such farms never show any symptoms of mineral deficiency. I thus > > realized that the mineral deficiencies in the soil are corrected by > > the soil micro-organisms. Asking farmers to apply special kinds of > > bacterial cultures to their soils for correcting the mineral > > deficiencies amounts to cheating the farmers. The necessary microbes > > are already in the soil. All one has to do is to feed them with a high > > calorie organic material, so that they multiply their numbers. > > Yours > > A.D.Karve > > > > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alex English <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Andrew, > >> Perhaps you have seen solubility charts? > >> > >> http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm > >> It is slightly different for soiless media. > >> Very much a chemist's take on soil fertility. > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> > >> On 15/12/2012 5:20 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Frans, good to see your contribution. > >>> > >>> On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:22:03 +0100,"Frans Peeters" > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Basic soil needs humus to bring pH 8,5 to 6,5 > >>> > >>> This is because humus (humic acid?) is acidic but so will low > >>> temperature char that still contains pyroligneous chemicals?? > >>>> > >>>> Basic soil by Ca exess has lack of Mg take up to form Chlorofil leef > >>>> green > >>>> .Result yellow leaves . > >>> > >>> Ye Ca inhibits take up of magnesium, we have it once roots reach the > >>> chalk on thin soils here, it's known as lime induced chlorosis. > >>>> > >>>> Char has no chemical effect . > >>> > >>> The carbon in char is inert but presumably its the ash associated with > >>> the carbon matrix that makes high temperature char basic. > >>>> > >>>> Sometimes water and minerals into the char are usefull at pH 5,5 -7. > >>> > >>> Could you expand on that? > >>>> > >>>> Basic soil makes trace minerals unsoluble and not avaiable to take up > . > >>>> > >>>> Zn and Se can profit of basic soil . > >>>> > >>>> Too acid under pH 5 dissoves Aluminium from clay ,a plant killer . > >>>> > >>> I take from that that if the soil becomes too acid the aluminium > >>> becomes labile and available, hence it kills the plants. > >>> > >>> So similarly if the soil is too basic it makes zinc and selenium > >>> unavailable? > >>> > >>> AJH > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> Frans > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stoves mailing list > >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >> [email protected] > >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >> > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists > > .org > >> > >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *** > > Dr. A.D. Karve > > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute > (ARTI) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists > > .org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > -- > *** > Dr. A.D. Karve > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 27/2 Phu Dong Tieng Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
