On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:39 PM, Anand Karve <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Art Donelly, > are the cobs fed to pigs whole cobs with the grain or the shanks left after > removing the grain? Here in India we regularly use the empty shanks as fuel. > Yours > A.D.Karve > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Art Donnelly <[email protected]> > wrote: > Hi all, > It has been a busy few days, so forgive me if someone has already made these > observations. We have used corn cobs with great success in the TLUD style > Estufa Finca stoves. I love showing people our little tiny corn cob charcoal. > We have also successfully made a lot of biochar from dried corn stover in our > version of the 55-gal drum TLUd style J-Ros. MIT has also promoted both of > these approaches in it's Field-to-fuel program in Haiti and Nicaragua. > > But there is a problem with thinking of corn cobs as a stove fuel: most cobs > are used as animal feed (pigs/chickens) and needed for it. Applying a > hierarchy or best use: the pigs win! However pelleted or briquetted corn > stover mixed with paper waste seems like it has a lot of potential. > > Art > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:00 PM, <[email protected]> > wrote: > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: corn cobs and char? (Ronal W. Larson) > 2. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Andrew C. Parker) > 3. Re: corn cobs and char? ([email protected]) > 4. Re: corn cobs and char? (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott) > 5. Re: corn cobs and char? ([email protected]) > 6. Re: corn cobs and char? (Ronal W. Larson) > 7. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Anand Karve) > 8. Re: LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador (Andrew C. Parker) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600 > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > List, Tom etal: > > Thanks for all the inputs. Any others on corn cobs would still be > potentially helpful. > > My interest is only in the pyrolysis of such (for biochar production in a > simple stove reasons, of course), and (as noted by many below) their low > energy density makes pyrolysis difficult in TLUD. Re corncobs themselves in > the US, this cite I found helpful: > > http://renewables.morris.umn.edu/biomass/documents/Zych-TheViabilityOfCornCobsAsABioenergyFeedstock.pdf > > This site > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/alwayssomethingnew/Waste11.pdf > says that globally there are 35 Gt cobs per year - which would make about as > much available as char as total annual fossil emissions. - of 7-8 Gt C (very > few of them now being used for anything). But this sounds way too high, but > 35 million tons sounds too low. I have read 15% of a corn plant is in the > cob, and annual production is approaching 1 Gt C. Anyone an expert on corn? > In any case, corn os the world's largest grain crop - in both hectares and > tons now, I believe - so their should be some cooking application for cobs > somewhere > > This site has a good 2012 paper on corn by Zhang > thescipub.com/pdf/10.3844/ajbbsp.2012.44.53 > > > The reason for asking about cobs is not only that they are pretty widely > available, but they are not a bad size and shape (especially compared to > rice husks, which get a lot of attention in the stove world) > > I am looking for reasons to drop the corn cob thread, but not yet found > it. > > > Might as well design for the EPA testing protocol (5 kg water, 45 minute > simmer??, etc). Can anyone supply that (in published form preferably) in > terms of anticipated energy need to the pot.? After which we can figure > 30-40% (or different Tiers) stove efficiency. Then we can go to container > sizes, number of fuel switches per test, etc. > > The first site above says about 5 GJ/m3 for corncobs (and 12 for wood > pellets), so (forgetting reloading) the fuel volume needs to be about 2.4 > times larger than one with pellets that is also a char-producer. But down > draft also allows reloading, not possible with TLUDs. And (maybe) we can > avoid a larger fuel container and achieve lower first cost with BLDD. > > > Anyone been thinking along these (corn or BLDD) lines? > > I have in mind a downdraft design that I think can overcome the space and > several other problems with TLUDs. Nothing much on paper, but I'd be glad > to discuss the BLDD topic with anyone - in an open source context. This is > NOT dependent on corn cobs, but came out of thinking about cobs. > > > > Ron > > > On Aug 14, 2013, at 8:34 AM, "Tom Miles" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > It seems to me that we have seen cobs burned with wood fuels in stoves for > > several years, especially in Latin America. > > > > A challenge with crop residues is that they have enough air in the stalks, > > cobs and stems to barely support combustion so they tend to smolder rather > > than burn. A little wood provides enough of a pilot flame to keep the > > combustible gases ignited. > > > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130814/d6f696fb/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:31:04 -0600 > From: "Andrew C. Parker" <[email protected]> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador > Message-ID: <op.w1tpx2u2uoov7l@dad> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Another step in the government's marketing campaign (I used to publish a > small newspaper, so the process intrigues me). For those of you who are > considering a major product launch, take notice. (Keep in mind, El > Universo is a major opposition newspaper, though recently editorially > hobbled but not totally controlled. I have not been following this story > in the government owned media.) > > <http://www.eluniverso.com/noticias/2013/08/14/nota/1288706/sube-demanda-cocinas-induccion-calentadores> > > > Important points to consider, when converting to electric cooking > appliances in Ecuador and many other countries, is that electrical service > is often a hit-and-miss affair, and service is often acquired(stolen) > using appliance cord. I hope to see that addressed in upcoming articles, > probably coinciding with the next big service interruption or tragic > electrical fire (which will compensate for the reduction in the number of > tragic tank explosions). > > I am not opposed to conversion to electric (it is still preferable to a > wholesale switch to biomass*), I just don't have confidence that the > government can meet the increased demand for electricity and provide it > reliably. > > *(My great fear is the government turning to biomass fueled power plants. > I see biomass best used as a local solution, where appropriate, i.e. a > sustainable supply without increasing ecological damage. When it is > proposed as a national, regional or global solution, mayhem ensues. What > little I have seen on state television hints that the current preferred > solution will be patriotic reductions in energy use, which brings us back > to biomass stoves.) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:03:12 GMT > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ron, > > > On page 24 of the following link: > > http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-C19F-44AE-AA75 > -18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf > > > corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency. > > > Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is > correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received > any response. > > Fr Juanito > > > > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:44:51 +0000 > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> > To: "Stoves" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Message-ID: > > <511447701-1376516692-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-194335528-@b27.c10.bise6.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Dear Juanito > > Do they define what they mean by 'thermal efficiency'? That may change the > impression given. > > Regards > Crispin > From BB9900 > > -----Original Message----- > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sender: "Stoves" <[email protected]> > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:03:12 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > > Ron, > > > On page 24 of the following link: > > http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-C19F-44AE-AA75 > -18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf > > > corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency. > > > Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is > correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received > any response. > > Fr Juanito > > > > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:52:30 GMT > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Crispin, > > No. I suspect something is lost in the translation from Thai to English. > > I asked to have the claim confirmed but so far, I have not received a > response. > > Juanito > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]> > To: "Stoves" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:44:51 +0000 > > Dear Juanito > > Do they define what they mean by 'thermal efficiency'? That may change the > impression given. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 16:12:12 -0600 > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Fr. Juanito and list > > 1, Re p 24. It was favorable to see cobs come out ahead of chips and > char, but it seemed (I could not make the video work), that was almost > certainly combustion and neither gasification nor pyrolysis. I need data for > pyrolysis, not gasification - which seemed to be the main topic of the PPt, > but there was a lot on the Belonio stove. Dr. Olivier has advanced that > design a lot. > > 2. Slide 15 was badly in error, showing a TLUD and putting the word > "combustion" where the word "pyrolysis" should appear. > > 3. One doesn't need to be a Thai reader to enjoy this PPt. - maybe 2% in > Thai. > > Thanks a lot for the added info. > > Ron > > . > > On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:03 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Ron, > > > > > > On page 24 of the following link: > > > > http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/25F7955D-C19F-44AE-AA75 > > -18A5DFC2B980/Household_and_Farm_Level_Gasifier_Technolog.pdf > > > > > > corn cobs are ranked as having the highest thermal efficiency. > > > > > > Would you (or somebody who can read Thai) be able to verify if that is > > correct? I have sent an email to the address provided but have not received > > any response. > > > > Fr Juanito > > > > > > > > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] corn cobs and char? > > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:08:04 -0600 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:44:47 +0530 > From: Anand Karve <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador > Message-ID: > <cacpy7sfnd4sxabo75gesfqmccs33fch7zbap6axd9yxxtwv...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Andrew, > there is no need for anything to get ugly if urban households switched to > biomass. If one used stoves having electrically driven fans, biomass can > be burned as cleanly as kerosene or LPG. If more electricity is going to be > available in Ecuador, it can be used for briquetting agricultural waste. > This has now grown into a thriving industry in India. The briquette makers > buy agricultural waste from farmers and sell the briquettes to > industries as boiler fuel. If an industry uses biomass briquettes instead > of fuel oil as boiler fuel, it saves almost 60% of the fuel cost. A company > of which I am the Chairman of the board, sells large stoves of this type to > restaurants, which have switched over from LPG to using biomass briquettes. > The cities themselves produce a large amount of combustible waste like > cardboard, waste paper and leaf litter. Richard Stanley's method of > briquetting can be used for turning urban waste into fuel briquettes for > use in urban household stoves. > Yours > A.D.Karve > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Andrew C. Parker > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > There is probably enough ag waste to fuel rural kitchens, but if urban > > households switch to biomass, it will get really ugly, which would be a > > shame for such a beautiful country. > > > > > ______________________________**_________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected].**org <[email protected]> > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.**org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_** > > lists.bioenergylists.org<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.**org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/> > > > > > > > -- > *** > Dr. A.D. Karve > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130815/2774267d/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:55:10 -0600 > From: "Andrew C. Parker" <[email protected]> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG subsidy to be removed in Ecuador > Message-ID: <op.w1uf18s6uoov7l@dad> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Dr. Karve, > > Thank you for your input. My concern is that demand for biomass would > outstrip the supply of agricultural waste and suppliers would begin > behaving like the charcoal burners of pre-subsidy days. I suppose, before > wringing my hands, I could compare the current demand of LPG against the > availability and estimated energy of ag waste, but I don't have those > figures available. Perhaps a grad student could be convinced to do it for > a thesis or capstone project? > > From the articles, it is evident that subsidies will continue, but for > electricity, not for LPG. That should be far less costly than current LPG > subsidies. Also, the comments by users of the the state provided > induction hotplates indicates that there will be a need for a non-electric > backup stove in most kitchens. > > Ironically, if the unregulated price of LPG soars, households that do not > qualify for the electric subsidy, may be more inclined to use a biomass > stove (assuming a lower price for biomass) than those who receive the > subsidy. > > > Andrew Parker > > > On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:14:47 -0600, Anand Karve <[email protected]> wrote: > > > there is no need for anything to get ugly if urban households switched > > to biomass. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 36, Issue 23 > ************************************** > > > > -- > Art Donnelly > President SeaChar.Org > US Director, The Farm Stove Project > Proyecto Estufa Finca > > "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living" > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > -- > *** > Dr. A.D. Karve > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >
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