Lanny,
Your reservations about the water heating with TLUDs reflect our society
with affluence and so much convenience. But in the low income
(extremely low compared with American and European incomes), the concept
of heating a quantity of water for prompt usage (no storage = no
insulation) and for quite small tasks (small quantities that are
different from our bath-laundry-kitchen needs) is potentially highly
viable.
There are clearly at least two "sets of needs for hot water", one for
the truly poor (not Americans who are poor) and another for those with
financial resources (some of which are in the developing societies.)
All of our efforts are needed.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: [email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 10/5/2013 12:04 PM, Lanny Henson wrote:
5 or 10 liters is not enough water for a bath, laundry, kitchen clean
up and hot tea for a family. I am thinking a stove that will heat a 20
liter pot would be more practical. A 40 quart would be even better but
would probably be out of the price range.
And I wonder if a TLUD is the best stove for a water heater. Aren't
they one shot and then you have to reload. How about a stove that will
hold water hot for a long period with the ability to throw in
a few chunks of wood in every hour or so to maintain the heat.
And dispensing is an issue to consider, probably just dipping will be
most practical.
Lanny
----- Original Message -----
*From:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<mailto:[email protected]> ; Nolbert Muhumuza
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Cc:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Saturday, October 05, 2013 12:13 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Water heating with TLUDs
Dear Paul and All
You are correct re the kitchens.
So with the cat out of the bag, there will be a water heating
category separate from stoves and it is highly suited to TLUD's
that require no attention. I suggest the 5 to 10 litre capacity
range - one does not need to fill it of course.
Because I know it is quite possible to get a very high heat
transfer efficiency with a gas flame from biomass, the target
performance will be high to qualify for a subsidy. It will be
subject to the usual system efficiency calculation so if you want
to make char it has to come out of energy savings.
I view them as fuel, fire and forget systems. No interaction
should be required from the operator after ignition.
To share some ideas, think of it this way: to boil 5 litres of
water takes about 2 MJ of heat. At 50% system efficiency that
takes about 250-300 g of fuel so that sets the combustion chamber
size. it is going to have to burn pretty much completely in about
15-20 minutes (rate of 1.2 kg/hr). If it makes a significant
amount of char, say 15%, the HTE will have to be higher and the
fuel load larger.
You get the idea. I think if a skirt is used it can serve as a
chimney and it will speed the combustion rate which will improve
the heat flux rate (watts/cm^2) to boil faster.
Please give it some thought - how you would solves0 this design
problem.
Regards
Crispin
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook^(TM)
Nolbert at Awamu and to all Stovers
[And i am sending this to a few others who are not on the Stoves
Listserv. And sending it
to the Biochar List because it shows a very good way to have a
useful task (heating water) while using TLUD
technology to make biochar.]
You received this whole message from the Stoves Listserv, but I am
emphasizing part of it.
Crispin wrote in reference to Indonesia:
It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases.
Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean
[ he probably mistyped this and it meant to say "UNclean or rustic
or 'outside' (that I observed in India) "]
portion with wood and
dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
kettle.
THIS is an extremely important niche for Awamu and for TLUDs
everywhere. Just one highly common, frequent (maybe even multiple
times per day) and useful application (in this case water heating
for bathing or for boiling to drink) to provide sufficient market
and demand for introducing the TLUD technology to households and
to schools. TLUD convenience as pointed out by Crispin and the
use of less expensive fuel could turn the tide of acceptance in
some communities.
We need to think of "kitchens" or separate areas where the pots
are black and that does not matter.
Note that this is not just for boiling water for drinking, which
can be ANOTHER major utility of TLUD stoves.
Doc
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:[email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:www.drtlud.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Stoves] NE Biochar takes the C-cake
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2013 00:25:40 +0700
From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<[email protected]>
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
<[email protected]>
Dear Ron
> Anything more on wood prices in town would be helpful. And for anything
in large quantities.
> Any data on the main cooking fuels if not char? Propane, electricity,
etc. Much wood?
The study just finished is being compiled. Early indications are that a
rough split of 40% cooking primarily with wood, 40% cooking primarily with
(subsidised) LPG, 20% with kerosene and electricity.
Of the 40% using LPG, 70% are using wood to heat water.
Of the 40% using wood, over 70% are using LPG to some extent, even in places
quite far from a supply.
It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases.
Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean portion with wood and
dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
kettle.
Regards
Crispin
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