Frank etal
The key words below are: "That short of $$ and lab tests. " Finally we
are beginning to see funds devoted to the important testing. Regional test
labs all over the place that weren't there a year ago.
They are doing round-robin testing (but what results I haven't heard).
And (from Dean Still) I understand it is not easy work. But I still am not
understanding how your proposal is going to make it any better. I think you
need to do the testing 4-5 times (4-5 different stoves) using both methods and
report on how close your method came to the admittedly more difficult approach
used by Jim Jetter and others.
It seems your are saying now that you will always have to measure the amount
of char produced in your approach?
Yours is a strong statement that the present results are meaningless. I
agree that a charcoal user will want to know a lot more about the char than is
now being given. But knowing its energy content is a very big start. So what
present number is "meaningless"? My point is that you can't know enough about
any particular stove from a test that only tells you the energy content of char
produced at 450 degrees in some standard manner (The rate of temperature climb
increase is just as important as the peak temperature). The Gaur-Reed book is
very specific about the (time history) way they achieved their results. No way
you can generalize about that in stove testing.
Ron
On Oct 12, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Frank Shields <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ron,
>
> The problem is the test being used doesn’t work. Never has. Never will. That
> because there is no way to determine the energy in the leftover mix of ash,
> char, torrefied wood, biomass and water at the accuracy required for the
> purpose of calculating energy used. That short of $$ and lab tests. This has
> been obvious to many of us from the beginning and we have always been looking
> for a better test method as we continue using the only method we know. I
> have finally figured a better way of doing it –wish it hadn’t taken so long.
> What we need to do now is quickly get the procedure in the hands of those
> that test, regulate and make decisions as to how testing is done so that we
> can switch over -and then move on to other important issues.
>
> Regarding your concern:
> As you recently mentioned regarding measuring the amount of char: “That is
> as simple a measurement as you can find.” But to determine char quality you
> need lab tests. To determine the energy content you need lab tests. What we
> have been (and now still) giving you is very crude and nothing you can use. I
> test char for quality and they differ all over the map yet all look the same
> – black. Even with my proposed approach you will still need to have the char
> tested for quality and energy. Nothing has changed regarding that. Just that
> you are not being handed some meaningless number.
>
> Have a great time at the conference.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Shields
> Control Laboratories; Inc.
> 42 Hangar Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> [email protected]
> www.controllabs.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ronal W. Larson [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 7:12 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass
> Cc: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Frank Shields
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test char-making stoves
> (attn: GACC testers)
>
> List, Crispin, Frank
>
> I want what Jim is producing already. Which of course is already giving
> the char mass and percentage. I also want the same in energy terms (oranges).
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 7:55 PM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ron and Frank
>
> On the subject of working out how much char is produced:
>
> You gather the char and weigh it and then you know.
>
> Ron, would you prefer the char mass expressed as a % of the initial dry mass
> of fuel loaded?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
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