Thomas B Reed 280 Hardwick Rd Barre, Ma 01005 508-353-7841
> On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS (Art Donnelly) > 2. Re: A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS (Bryden, Kenneth [M E]) > 3. Re: A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS (CHRISTA ROTH) > 4. Re: NY Times article on what fuel poor need. (Ronal W. Larson) > 5. Re: NY Times article on what fuel poor need. (Roger Samson) > 6. Re: NY Times article on what fuel poor need. (Anand Karve) > 7. Re: A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS (Cookswell Jikos) > 8. Re: NY Times article on what fuel poor need. (Ronal W. > Larson) (yury yud) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:30:32 -0600 > From: Art Donnelly <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS > Message-ID: > <CALyHvqq1RUZ=ZuMyJ=yq0bahs8pzhrxqszvmoykbf4mgtov...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > I want to respond to Teddy's query, on the 30th of Nov., about the > possibility of a "fuels" panel discussion or session at the upcoming ETHOS > conference. We all recognize what an important issue this is, not just in > terms of sustainability, but also performance and acceptance. As a working > with biochar producing TLUD-style stoves, this is one of our make-or-break > issues. > So, Teddy I hope you will attend this years conference, after an absence of > two years, I am looking forward to it. You have my interest in seeing the > topic of fuels, as a featured part of the conference. What could we do to > make this happen? > Art > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131205/53274900/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:46:37 +0000 > From: "Bryden, Kenneth [M E]" <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > I?m listening to the discussion and compiling a list of suggestions. I?ll > send out the list in the next week. Once we have topics - someone will need > to volunteer to lead and gather the speakers/activities in a particular area. > > Mark > > > On Dec 5, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Art Donnelly <[email protected]> wrote: > > [snip] > >> What could we do to make this happen? >> Art > [snip] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 20:56:03 +0100 > From: CHRISTA ROTH <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Paul Means and myself intend to contribute a session on fuels and fuel > preparation, as a follow up on Pauls presentation this year at ETHOS and in > Cambodia. It will also contain practical examples from Malawi on the > experiences how people transitioned from being strained for firewood to > self-sufficiency for cooking energy in the combination of slightly improved > stoves and the growing of pigeon peas intercropped in their fields. a good > example of an integrated food, feed and energy system. Abstract will follow > soon-ish. > I will also present the updated micro-gasification manual (but need to finish > it first?) > Christa > >> Am 05.12.2013 um 20:46 schrieb "Bryden, Kenneth [M E]" >> <[email protected]>: >> >> I?m listening to the discussion and compiling a list of suggestions. I?ll >> send out the list in the next week. Once we have topics - someone will need >> to volunteer to lead and gather the speakers/activities in a particular area. >> >> Mark >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Art Donnelly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >>> What could we do to make this happen? >>> Art >> [snip] >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:10:24 -0700 > From: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]> > To: Roger Samson <[email protected]>, Discussion of biomass > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Roger: > > Very nice job on reporting the evolution of the No-Flay. I see some very > clever design features there - and a very nice cost ($10). I look forward to > hearing of your upcoming more detailed test results. > > Some nit picking questions: > > 1. You are recommending a 1.5 cm gap from outer unfired wall to pot. I > think Dean Still would recommend maybe half that. Any specific reason for > 1.5 cm? > > 2. How do you support the pot above the three fired brick stack? > Spacing also 1.5 cm? Or more? > > 3. What are the range of pot diameters you can accommodate? Has any > family bought 2 for different pot sizes for types of food? > > 4. I can understand the recommendation for outside cooking, but also see > the no-flay as working indoors for some cultures. One objection I had once > was taking up space. Any use of your no-flays indoors? The outdoor use any > problem with rainfall on the unfired bricks? > > 5. I am unaware of any other stove with internal support using the > fired bricks. Nice concept. I like there are three, not four inside. The > 20 cm height for three could be varied a little for different size pots and > flames? The fired bricks seem to cost 10 cents each, and the unfired at a > little less than half that. Could the fired bricks be supplied in rounded > arc shapes similarly? (Trying to move towards a TLUD version of same - > needing a total enclosure.) > > 6. A TLUD all-clay, local construction version (to obtain char) seems > doable - but would need drop down (removable) metal fuel containers. I hope > some reader can report they tried it. Maybe later I will. Getting rid of > metal is great. I think with wider fired bricks you might not need any outer > layer, although that does provide some nice preheating. > > 7. Is it necessary to sell this at $5? I would think your fuel savings > could easily justify the full $10 cost. > > 8. Your cost pie-chart showed a ?micro? transport cost. What is that? > > Again thanks for reporting on some very nice approaches. Best of luck on > future sales. > > Ron > > >> On Dec 5, 2013, at 11:07 AM, Roger Samson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> The best way to identify the cooking needs of poor people is to ask them >> after spending considerable time with them in the field to understand their >> situation (ie to understand the cooking problem intimately and then >> brainstorm solutions together) >> >> This supposition that we have to cook indoors in much of the developing >> world is something that should be debated widely. In the western world we >> don't warm up our cars for extended periods in our house as we all agree >> this is poor for our health. Can we all recognize that it is a much better >> idea to run combustion appliances for cooking in an outdoor >> environment(especially in the tropics). >> >> >> The poor affordability and replicability of "high tech" stoves and fuels is >> a serious development barrier. Cooking outdoors (especially in rural areas) >> with appropriate local and low cost improved stoves and fuels is the most >> sustainable approach to address the health impacts of cooking. We need to >> combine improved cookstoves with a cooking environment that does not have >> stagnant air (ie one that recycles particulates or doesn't allow for >> particle dispersion). Cooking outdoors in rural areas has no ambient air >> impacts on communities so let's just do it. We are promoting this concept in >> west africa with the REAP clay brick stove known locally as the Noflay or >> "no problem" stove in the region. >> >> The health impact is a function of the technology x cooking time x >> environment in which the cooking is performed. >> We can express it in an equation form as H=T (technology) xT (time of >> exposure) x E(environment) in which the cooking is performed. >> >> >> All the best >> >> Roger Samson >> REAP-Canada >> http://www.reap-canada.com/ >> >> >> >> From: Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:55:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. >> >> Rogerio etal >> >> Brazil is going to be leading the way on biofuels of all types. In >> addition to ethanol (from sugar cane?), there are numerous plant species >> producing oily seeds that can be pressed. From time to time we have had >> seed oil proponents on this list. We have had several for ethanol stoves >> >> I had in mind also the use of all sorts of liquid fuels that can be >> produced from pyrolysis - with a biochar co-product, so we can accomplish >> some CDR (carbon dioxide removal). >> >> Liquid fuels can burn very cleanly and are nicely controllable. >> >> Ron >> >> >>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Rogerio carneiro de miranda >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Agreeing with Ron. >>> >>> Liquid biofuels, and specially ethanol can be an alternative cooking and >>> lighting fuel, either produced at large scale or at the community level >>> with micro-distilleries. >>> >>> Project Gaia have demonstrated to me an efficient ethanol cookstove and >>> also an ethanol lamp, and I have seeing here ethanol power generators in >>> operation. >>> >>> Here in Brazil ethanol produced at farm level can be around US$ 0,50 per >>> liter >>> >>> Rog?rio >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/4 Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> >>> Nari and list: >>> >>> 1. I write to disagree with your conclusion on fossil fuels. They are >>> ?best? (in several senses, not including being cheaper) mainly because >>> their externality costs are borne by all of society. >>> >>> 2. I was surprised at first to see this view attributed to the NY Times. >>> This was the view of Bjorne Lomborg who claims not to be a climate skeptic >>> - but sure writes like one. >>> >>> 3. I do agree that kerosene has many advantages to go with their >>> disadvantages. A way to move to a majority of advantages is to call for >>> liquid fuels rather than fossil fuels. These can have a biomass origin, >>> and (especially in rural areas) can also be cheaper. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, nari phaltan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi stovers, >>>> >>>> A recent NYT article echoes what we have observed while working with rural >>>> poor in India - they need excellent and convenient fuel for cooking and >>>> lighting. Sometimes fossil fuels are the best. >>>> www.nariphaltan.org/kerosene.pdf >>>> >>>> Here is the NYT article; >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/opinion/the-poor-need-cheap-fossil-fuels.html?hp&rref=opinion >>>> >>>> Cheers. >>>> >>>> Anil >>>> >>>> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) >>>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road >>>> P.O.Box 44 >>>> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India >>>> Ph:91-2166-222396/220945/222842 >>>> mailto:e-mail%[email protected] >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://www.nariphaltan.org/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stoves mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131205/98b19cf7/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:32:57 -0800 (PST) > From: Roger Samson <[email protected]> > To: "Ronal W. Larson" <[email protected]>, Discussion of > biomass <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Ron > ? > See replies below > ? > Roger: ? > ? > ? ?Very nice job on reporting the evolution of the No-Flay. ?I see some very > clever design features there - and a very nice cost ($10). ?I look forward to > hearing of your upcoming more detailed test results. > ? > ?Some nit picking questions: > ? > ? ?1. ?You are recommending a 1.5 cm gap from outer unfired wall to pot. ?I > think Dean Still would recommend maybe half that. ?Any specific reason for > 1.5 cm? > ? > We found 1.5 cm worked nicely with the typical 34 cm (14?) large pots > (cooking for 14 in the household on average). The gap has to be sized to the > combustion air flow you require. A bigger heat demand requires a bigger gap. > Also from a practical standpoint a 1.5 cm was a gap the masons could work > with, a smaller gap would cause installation issues. > ? > 2.?????? How do you support the pot above the three fired brick stack? > ?Spacing also 1.5 cm? ?Or more? > ? > Yes we just cut the aluminum pot legs with a hacksaw to leave about a 1.5-2cm > stub on the legs > ? > 3.?????? What are the range of pot diameters you can accommodate? ?Has any > family bought 2 for different pot sizes for types of food? > ? > Our experience to date is the stove can accommodate pots from about 30 cm > -60cm but we haven?t gone bigger yet. ?In Senegal and Gambia most users want > a 5 brick layer high stove for rice and millet cooking and a 4 brick layer > high sauce pan stove. At McGill University a student is working to develop a > bigger prototype for parboiling rice. > ? > ? > ? ? ?4. ?I can understand the recommendation for outside cooking, but also > see the no-flay as working indoors for some cultures. ?One objection I had > once was taking up space. ?Any use of your no-flays indoors? ? The outdoor > use any problem with rainfall on the unfired bricks? > ? > We started installing indoors and it was the communities that decided to > build the stove outdoors once they realized they could cook outdoors under > windy conditions with the double wall design. They never could do that before > safely or efficiently with a 3 stone fire. ?To protect from rain most just > put up a slanted sheet of tin and two wooden supports against an existing > kitchen wall. ? > ? > ? ? ? 5. ?I am unaware of any other stove with internal support using the > fired bricks. ?Nice concept. ?I like there are three, not four inside. ?The > 20 cm height for three could be varied a little for different size pots and > flames? ?The fired bricks seem to cost 10 cents each, and the unfired at a > little less than half that. ?Could the fired bricks be supplied in rounded > arc shapes similarly? ?(Trying to move towards a TLUD version of same - > needing a total enclosure.) > ? > We use 4 centre bricks on the bigger stoves in a diamond like pattern to > support bigger pots. The 20 cm height is really a function of the brick > thickness to save on materials. We could go higher, but it?s also the height > they are used to cooking at so very user friendly. We went with smooth sided > bricks because they are easier to pack and less breakage in transport. > ? > ? ? ? 6. ?A TLUD all-clay, local construction version (to obtain char) seems > doable - but would need drop down (removable) metal fuel containers. ?I hope > some reader can report they tried it. ?Maybe later I will. ?Getting rid of > metal is great. ?I think with wider fired bricks you might not need any outer > layer, although that does provide some nice preheating. > ? > Paul Anderson and I discussed this as a hybrid stove concept in Seattle, you > use the TLUD insert and place it inside the fired bricks when you have the > TLUD fuel and remove it and cook with wood when you don?t. > ? > ? > ? ? ?7. ?Is it necessary to sell this at $5? ?I would think your fuel savings > could easily justify the full $10 cost. > ? > Well it?s a new stove and this area is very poor in west africa. So if you > can?t install stoves unless you discount it to launch it, you have to > subsidize. Hopefully they will build it themselves locally and become wealthy > enough to be able to afford to buy it without subsidy in the future. > ? > ? ? ?8. ?Your cost pie-chart showed a ?micro? transport cost. ?What is that? > ? > That?s brick redistribution costs in the community. So we bring bricks by > truck or tractor wagon to a community but you have to donkey cart it to each > individual household so that?s our ?micro? transport cost. > ? > Again thanks for reporting on some very nice approaches. ?Best of luck on > future sales. > ? > ? > THANKS! > Ron > > From: Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> > To: Roger Samson <[email protected]>; Discussion of biomass > <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 3:10:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. > > > > Roger: ? > > ? ?Very nice job on reporting the evolution of the No-Flay. ?I see some very > clever design features there - and a very nice cost ($10). ?I look forward to > hearing of your upcoming more detailed test results. > > ?Some nit picking questions: > > ? ?1. ?You are recommending a 1.5 cm gap from outer unfired wall to pot. ?I > think Dean Still would recommend maybe half that. ?Any specific reason for > 1.5 cm? > > ? ? 2. ? How do you support the pot above the three fired brick stack? > ?Spacing also 1.5 cm? ?Or more? > > ? ? 3. ?What are the range of pot diameters you can accommodate? ?Has any > family bought 2 for different pot sizes for types of food? > > ? ? ?4. ?I can understand the recommendation for outside cooking, but also > see the no-flay as working indoors for some cultures. ?One objection I had > once was taking up space. ?Any use of your no-flays indoors? ? The outdoor > use any problem with rainfall on the unfired bricks? > > ? ? ? 5. ?I am unaware of any other stove with internal support using the > fired bricks. ?Nice concept. ?I like there are three, not four inside. ?The > 20 cm height for three could be varied a little for different size pots and > flames? ?The fired bricks seem to cost 10 cents each, and the unfired at a > little less than half that. ?Could the fired bricks be supplied in rounded > arc shapes similarly? ?(Trying to move towards a TLUD version of same - > needing a total enclosure.) > > ? ? ? 6. ?A TLUD all-clay, local construction version (to obtain char) seems > doable - but would need drop down (removable) metal fuel containers. ?I hope > some reader can report they tried it. ?Maybe later I will. ?Getting rid of > metal is great. ?I think with wider fired bricks you might not need any outer > layer, although that does provide some nice preheating. > > ? ? ?7. ?Is it necessary to sell this at $5? ?I would think your fuel savings > could easily justify the full $10 cost. > > ? ? ?8. ?Your cost pie-chart showed a ?micro? transport cost. ?What is that? > > Again thanks for reporting on some very nice approaches. ?Best of luck on > future sales. > > Ron > > > On Dec 5, 2013, at 11:07 AM, Roger Samson <[email protected]> wrote: > > ? >> The best way to identify?the cooking needs of poor people is to ask them >> after spending considerable time with them?in the field to understand their >> situation (ie to?understand the cooking problem intimately and then >> brainstorm solutions together) >> ? >> This supposition that we have to cook indoors in much of the developing >> world is something that should be debated?widely. In the western world we >> don't warm up our cars?for extended periods in our house as we all agree >> this is poor for our health. Can we?all recognize that it is a much better >> idea to run?combustion appliances for cooking in an outdoor >> environment(especially in?the tropics).? >> ? >> ? >> The poor affordability and replicability of "high tech" stoves and fuels?is >> a serious development barrier.?Cooking outdoors (especially in rural areas) >> with appropriate local and low cost improved stoves and fuels is the?most >> sustainable approach to?address the health impacts of cooking.?We need to >> combine improved cookstoves with a cooking environment that does not have >> stagnant air (ie one that recycles particulates or doesn't allow for >> particle dispersion).?Cooking outdoors in rural areas has no ambient air >> impacts on communities so let's just do it. We are promoting this concept in >> west africa with the REAP clay brick stove known locally as the Noflay or >> "no problem" stove in the region. >> ? >> The health impact is a function of the technology x cooking time x >> environment in which the cooking is performed.? >> We can express it in an equation form as H=T (technology) xT (time of >> exposure) x E(environment)?in which the cooking is performed.?? >> ? >> ? >> All the best >> ? >> Roger Samson >> REAP-Canada >> http://www.reap-canada.com/ >> ? >> ? >> >> >> From: Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:55:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. >> >> >> >> Rogerio etal >> >> >> ? ?Brazil is going to be leading the way on biofuels of all types. ?In >> addition to ethanol (from sugar cane?), there are numerous plant species >> producing oily seeds that can be pressed. ? From time to time we have had >> seed oil proponents on this list. ?We have had several for ethanol stoves >> >> >> ? ?I had in mind also the use of all sorts of liquid fuels that can be >> produced from pyrolysis - with a biochar co-product, so we can accomplish >> some CDR (carbon dioxide removal). >> >> >> ? ?Liquid fuels can burn very cleanly and are nicely controllable. >> >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Rogerio carneiro de miranda >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Agreeing with Ron.? >>> >>> >>> Liquid biofuels, and specially ethanol can be an alternative cooking and >>> lighting fuel, either produced at large scale or at the community level >>> with micro-distilleries. >>> >>> >>> Project Gaia have demonstrated to me an efficient ethanol cookstove and >>> also an ethanol lamp, and I have seeing here ethanol power generators in >>> operation. >>> >>> >>> Here in Brazil ethanol produced at farm level can be around US$ 0,50 per >>> liter >>> >>> >>> Rog?rio >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/4 Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> >>> >>> Nari and list: >>>> >>>> >>>> ? 1. ? I write to disagree with your conclusion on fossil fuels. ? They >>>> are ?best? (in several senses, not including being cheaper) mainly because >>>> their externality costs are borne by all of society. >>>> >>>> >>>> ? ?2. ?I was surprised at first to see this view attributed to the NY >>>> Times. ?This was the view of Bjorne Lomborg who claims not to be a climate >>>> skeptic - but sure writes like one. >>>> >>>> >>>> ? ?3. ?I do agree that kerosene has many advantages to go with their >>>> disadvantages. ?A way to move to a majority of advantages is to call for >>>> liquid fuels rather than fossil fuels. ? ?These can have a biomass origin, >>>> and (especially in rural areas) can also be cheaper. >>>> >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, nari phaltan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi stovers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A recent NYT article echoes what we have observed while working with >>>>> rural poor in India - they need excellent and convenient fuel for cooking >>>>> and lighting. Sometimes fossil fuels are the best. >>>>> www.nariphaltan.org/kerosene.pdf? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here is the NYT >>>>> article;?http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/opinion/the-poor-need-cheap-fossil-fuels.html?hp&rref=opinion >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anil >>>>> ?Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) >>>>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road >>>>> P.O.Box 44 >>>>> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India >>>>> Ph:91-2166-222396/220945/222842 >>>>> mailto:e-mail%[email protected] >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nariphaltan.org/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>> >>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>> >>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: >>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stoves mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,? News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131205/2db55fe8/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 08:04:19 +0530 > From: Anand Karve <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. > Message-ID: > <cacpy7sdmyijwbrg-xk3aghxsthfufhg8fejnybkufd7r3kq...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Because the soap and cosmetics manufacturers need specific fatty acids, > separating fatty acids from non-edible oils and animal fats is a thriving > industry in India, This process leaves glycerine behind. I do not know > what glycerine is used for, but if it is available at a moderate price of > about US Cents 50 per kg, one might consider it as one of the liquid fuels > Crystalline sugar is also available in India at about the same price. It > melts at a moderate temperature of about 100C. Has anybody tried it? > Yours A.D.Karve > >> >> Project Gaia have demonstrated to me an efficient ethanol cookstove and >> also an ethanol lamp, and I have seeing here ethanol power generators in >> operation. >> >> Here in Brazil ethanol produced at farm level can be around US$ 0,50 per >> liter >> >> Rog?rio >> >> >> 2013/12/4 Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> >> >> Nari and list: >>> >>> 1. I write to disagree with your conclusion on fossil fuels. They >>> are ?best? (in several senses, not including being cheaper) mainly because >>> their externality costs are borne by all of society. >>> >>> 2. I was surprised at first to see this view attributed to the NY >>> Times. This was the view of Bjorne Lomborg who claims not to be a climate >>> skeptic - but sure writes like one. >>> >>> 3. I do agree that kerosene has many advantages to go with their >>> disadvantages. A way to move to a majority of advantages is to call for >>> liquid fuels rather than fossil fuels. These can have a biomass origin, >>> and (especially in rural areas) can also be cheaper. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:23 PM, nari phaltan <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi stovers, >>> >>> A recent NYT article echoes what we have observed while working with >>> rural poor in India - they need excellent and convenient fuel for cooking >>> and lighting. Sometimes fossil fuels are the best. >>> www.nariphaltan.org/kerosene.pdf >>> >>> Here is the NYT article; >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/opinion/the-poor-need-cheap-fossil-fuels.html?hp&rref=opinion >>> >>> Cheers. >>> >>> Anil >>> >>> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI) >>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road >>> P.O.Box 44 >>> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India >>> Ph:91-2166-222396/220945/222842 >>> e-mail:[email protected] >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://www.nariphaltan.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- > *** > Dr. A.D. Karve > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131206/dd61b804/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:22:56 +0300 > From: Cookswell Jikos <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] A "fuels" panel discussion at ETHOS > Message-ID: > <caa-40hk0rwzdo98zraevnedgslzfaztbg_who0+d+up4nfs...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Art - thank you for your email. > > Let me see how Christmas sales pan out and perhaps I will be able to join > you guys at ETHOS - it sounds fantastic! > > To be a bit more clear on what I am working on please see the following > links to Cookswell's blog - > > http://kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/2009/12/buy-energy-saving-jiko-and-plant-52.html > > http://kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-cookswell-branch-charcoal-method.html > > http://kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/2011/10/grow-and-make-your-own-charcoal-in-half.html > > and this recent case study - > http://africanclimate.net/en/cases/cookswell-jikos > > We have very many customers in Kenya using this ''seed-to-ash'' system of > sustainable domestic biomass energy primarily because I think it is so > straight forward and does require very much behavior change from the user > and at the end of the day, it can even make one a bit of money. > > We decided on acacia spp. tree seeds to be disseminated for free with each > of our products because they grow extremely well in most parts of East > Africa, they are already a prime choice for charcoal feedstock, they > coppice readily and are nitrogen fixing. They also can produce poles, > timber, tool handles etc. > We also try to advise people who do not have land to grow them on to give > them to their local clinic/school or plant them on the road reserves. > > Thanks again and happy cooking everyone! > > Teddy > > > > *Cookswell Jikos* > www.cookswell.co.ke > www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos > www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com > Mobile: +254 700 380 009 > Mobile: +254 700 905 913 > P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Art Donnelly <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I want to respond to Teddy's query, on the 30th of Nov., about the >> possibility of a "fuels" panel discussion or session at the upcoming ETHOS >> conference. We all recognize what an important issue this is, not just in >> terms of sustainability, but also performance and acceptance. As a working >> with biochar producing TLUD-style stoves, this is one of our >> make-or-break issues. >> So, Teddy I hope you will attend this years conference, after an absence >> of two years, I am looking forward to it. You have my interest in seeing >> the topic of fuels, as a featured part of the conference. What could we do >> to make this happen? >> Art >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131206/cc6a9897/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 11:43:41 +0400 > From: yury yud <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] NY Times article on what fuel poor need. (Ronal > W. Larson) > Message-ID: > <cad4d88a37hpafm4gmf62bb1fxaog_k1_t6-vygcuuxf5fns...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Ron, > I want to express my views on this debate . > 1. Global warming as a result of human activity : > Take statistics and calculate how much carbon can be thrown into the air , > if we burn all the coal , gas and oil ( actually part of the fuel used in > chemical synthesis ) . It turned out 10 billion tons of carbon . > Look how much carbon is in the form of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and > oceans . Turned 100,000 billion tons. We could increase that number by > 1/10000 maximum . People too ambitious a high opinion of themselves, if > they think they can influence global processes of their daily activities. > The high concentration of population and industry can lead to local issues > in such regions . Reducing emissions is crucial there. > 2 . One person dies of hunger every six seconds in the world. I think the > use of food as fuel immoral today. > Sincerely > Yury (Russia) > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131206/46497cd4/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 40, Issue 6 > ************************************* _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
