Crispin and lists: You make it sound like you hadn’t thought I would reply. I didn’t even ask for a citation to go with your novel thinking.
Ron On Jan 3, 2014, at 7:21 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Ron, the depth of your curmudgeonly replies never ceases to amaze me. > > Crispin > > From: Ronal W. Larson > Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 08:17 > To: Discussion of biomass; Biochar > Reply To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Pine char gasification > > Lists, > > 1. This (up now to #18) thread started late last month (only on the > biochar list) with Tom Miles relaying a story from Crispin on Purdue > researchers making a fuel from char. I think one could write a novel about > this tortuous path. I decided to respond because of Crispin’s “blah, blah, > blah” insert below. > > 2. For those who wonder if there is a different version of the human > side of the terra preta story, I suggest a short version by Dr. Johannes > Lehmann (Biochar’s principal spokesperson, and who also did a thesis on this > topic in Brazil. > > http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/research/terra%20preta/terrapretamain.html > and a longer one (because it was highlighted in the short version and is > free) by same author at > > http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/publ/PlantSoil%20249,%20343-357,%202003%20Lehmann.pdf > > Anyone have something more up to date? > > 3. I find the interesting number for terra preta is not gm C/kg soil, > but rather tonnes C/ha -because of the depth where C is found in anthrosols > (a term that Crispin presumably denies is valid - at least as far as the > terra preta part of Brazil is concerned.) > > Ron > > > On Jan 2, 2014, at 2:46 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Kevin >> >> I was not sure where this message went so I am reporting it. >> >> Regards >> Crispin >> >> +++ >> >>> # KC: This seems to be "The Unspoken Elephant in the Room." Just how >>> did the Terrapretians actually make Terra Preta??? Did they actually >>> make it on purpose, OR did it just happen, when they disposed of >>> wastes, either ``jungle wastes`` or ``domestic wastes``? What is the >>> difference between making "Terra Preta" and the Milpa Agriculture, as >>> practised in Belize? >> >> A member of this list is Cecil Cook, the stove anthropologist. He doesn't >> say much on this list but he reads it. >> >> When he was at Harvard doing his PhD research (meaning, in Motto >> Grosso, Brazil for 4 years) he encountered Terra Preta and he has the >> following observation which is important for all the duffers >> like me discussing it. >> >> The original peoples of Brazil definitely farmed on terra preta soils. These >> soils appear in patches. There is nothing like 'big farm lands stretching to >> the horizon' when it comes to terra preta. What he observed is that the >> terra preta occurs on those places where they practised slash and burn >> agriculture on land chosen because it was already the most productive. Doh! >> >> In short, the reason the land is so productive is that it was already >> the most productive before the slashing and burning started tens of >> thousands of years ago. To attribute, in its entirely, the >> productivity of the soils to char alone is quite incorrect. >> There is a combination at work of slash and burn (which provides >> minerals and soil conditioner – char) on land that is already the best >> in the area for what might be a multitude of reasons, but drainage and >> good watering would be two. >> >> Cecil points out that in a rain forest the fertilising resource is above the >> ground. >> >> I have read that ‘on the edge of the farmed TP area the soil is much >> worse’ blah-blah-blah but all they are documenting is the fact that >> the First Nations people picked the good agriculture spots and worked >> those. That can’t be too surprising. >> >> The accumulation over millennia of additional char is accidental, not >> crafted, and it is not the source of the ‘fertility’. Char is not a >> fertiliser. Minerals from the ash are. After a few short years the >> fertility drops and they let it go back to forest for a few years to >> accumulate 'inputs' for the next go-round. I have heard of cycle times of >> from 3 to 7 years. >> >> Yes all sorts of amazing things can happen within char, or not, >> depending on whether the char created is toxic or benign or >> beneficial. As you know it is easy to generate dioxins by burning >> chlorine containing biomass, and all sorts of other things. Nature >> is not as simple as our understanding of it. >> >> Neither is Terra Preta. Where the land was good, they farmed it. >> Where it was not, they left it alone as not worth the effort. It is >> still true. We should be both cautious and not surprised. >> >> Regards >> Crispin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >
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