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At 02:46 PM 3/26/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Index of SPPS Budget Discussion http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/spps-posts.html _________________________________________
I very much appreciate Tim's efforts to get people to get a handle on themselves and remember that this is the Saint Paul issue forum.
On that though, I do think that updates on number of signatures that Mr. Swift has gotten on his petition urging the council to not approve the resolution and how someone gets access to that as appropriate. I also think that comments about if the city should or should not weigh in on the issue are very relevant. The problem is people seem to have a hard time limiting themselves to the City's role in the issue and instead get into why they support or oppose gay marriages (which isn't a city issue). Personally, I have gotten into a couple of good off-line discussions with those from the other side.
I'd be interested in getting updates on the number of St Paul residents signing Mr Swift's petition (or will non St Paul residents also be encouraged to sign).
Both papers estimated the crowd as higher than Swift reported. During the rally, I heard 4 K to 4500. Channel 5 way underestimated when they referred to this as hundreds.
I do think the City of St Paul should weigh in on this. I think this is especially important considering the black eye St Paul got as a result of the police officer getting accused of brutality at Lucy's - a lesbian bar in the city. This is legislation at the state capitol - and this amendment could prohibit the city of St Paul from offering domestic partner benefits - and would prohibit the legislature from passing legislation to allow cities to offer domestic partner benefits.
I still think that Swift's or other's frustration with Thune for authoring it is a legitimate topic (we all know Dave "sold his sole to the chamber" so not having one left we see what happens), as would be someone's reaction to a member not supporting the resolution. But, one would hope it would remain in the realm in the city's role in these issues.
I have been a little disappointed in lack of reaction to the Mayor's support of the measure (from either the left or the right) and don't have a clue how that is playing on this sounding board, or if people noticed.
Chuck, I'm glad you brought up Randy Kelly's support of this measure. Kudos to Mayor Kelly for stepping up to the plate on this. Mayor Rybak his counterpoint in Minneapolis is missing in action on this. St Paul taking the lead on this issue, has catalysed Minneapolis to do the same - though Scott Benson, author of the Minneapolis Resolution denies this on the Minneapolis Issues list.
Anyway, hoping that we don't run away from controversy, but get relevant to Saint Paul.
I totally agree. I do want to say that the post suggesting that Mee Moua supported polygamy and marriages in which the girl is a teenager as a bit over the top. Many of the states that have very high evangelical populations - Alabama for example - have laws that allow marriages with teenagers. For the state of Alabama:
ALABAMA Male: 14 � parental consent not required if minor was previously married. Other statutory requirements apply.
Female: 14 � parental consent not required if minor was previously married. Other statutory requirements apply.
Evangelicals have a higher divorce rate than the general public also.
Senator Moua's speech at the rally was very moving. I appreciated her courage.
Etenza got some boos during the rally. That could be because the DFL house caucus took no official position on this bill.
On Paul Keutel's post: I wish there were more conservatives that posted to this list. I do not consider some of the anti-gay posts to this list conservative. Instead those posts can more accurately described as anti-gay. A rally that has "Death Penalty for Homosexuals" signs is also not a conservative rally. It is a rally of anti-gay activists.
Chuck Muth - a true limited government conservative had this comment on the rally and the issue of race:
MORE RACE POLITICS
It seems the black community also has its tights up in a twist over the gay community comparing its fight for gay marriage to the civil rights fight of days gone by. Rev. Clarence James, a black-studies professor at Temple University, said this week, "When the homosexual compares himself to the black community, he doesn't know what suffering is."
Yeah? Tell that to Matthew Sheppard.
Meanwhile, religious right leader Don Wildmon is blasting Sen. Mark Dayton of Minnesota for accusing opponents of gay marriage of spewing "hatred and inhumanity." This on the same day an anti-gay marriage rally in Minnesota featured a protestor holding a sign that read, "Death Penalty for Homosexuals." Yeah, there's nothing hateful about THAT. What was Dayton thinking?
EY: Bob Battle, former chairman of the St Paul Civil Rights Commission is publically supporting the anti-gay amendment:
"Our marriage laws do not deny access to any individual the right to marriage, unlike the days of segregation when African-Americans were systematically excluded from full participation in society," said the Rev. Bob Battle, pastor of Berean Church in St. Paul and former chairman of the city's human-rights commission.
EY: Rep. Keith Ellison and Rep Neva Walker - the only black elected officials in the legislature oppose this amendment. Keith Ellison's speech to the legislature did give the civil rights reasons to oppose this amendment.
Is anyone familiar with where the St Paul NAACP stands on this?
The marriage laws do deny gay people the right to marriage. If Battle really thinks that gay people should get married to straight spouses, he's proposing a sure recipe for a disasterous marriage. Rock Hudson's exwife was on Larry King - and talked about the devastation she felt being fooled by Hudson - who married her to stop rumors.
Also the way I understand it the wording of the resolution does not support gay marriage - it opposes this amendment. That's a different thing.
Eva Young
Near North
Minneapolis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog is up:
http://lloydletta.blogspot.com
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