I asked if Chuck minded me reprinting his private reply to me, to the forum. He said no. Additionally, someone else emailed me privately asking if sometimes things don't make it into the digest - questions that are asked and never answered, answers or conversations that pop up without any visible history. I think a lot of stuff is taken offline. Maybe good, maybe bad, but I'd prefer that if a question is asked on the forum, as long as the answer isn't personal, post the answer to the forum. Unless it's to me (like Chuck's below), I'm not going to see it unless it goes to the forum. Plus, I don't have the luxury of saving all my emails (Hotmail file size limit), so things get deleted from my box. Yet if it was posted to the forum, if I really want to find something I could go back and check the archives. (Like I'd like to right now on the dirt testing place. Someone sent me the address, phone number, website and information and I was stupid enough not to immediately move the email to a permanent folder. It got deleted after 7 days and I've lost it! I remember enough that I figure I can find the agricultural extension in the phone book or online and call enough people to find out, but if the answer had appeared in the forum I'd know right where to go to dig it back up.)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: penalty Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:38:02 -0400
On any license violation the City Attorney recommends what the fine is to the Council, so they won't have a rock solid penalty in the ordinance. It would be less than $5,000 because I think that is the most the council could ever levy. Usually the attorney recommends $1,000 on the first offense.
For it to be an offense, the cops, or inspectors would need to show that the bar made no effort to stop the person from smoking. The best way to think of it is like going after a bar for vice issues. The owner of the bar didn't take his clothes off but if he made no effort to stop someone from stripping or created the stage and paid someone to be on it, it is assume that he OK'd it. Same here, if the inspector walks into the bar and there are people at the bar smoking and no one is telling them to stop - the owner broke the law.
The fines and penalties on licenses gets pretty complicated because the council
uses a matrix/grid to determine how serious an offense is compared to other
offenses, and then it disregards what it has done in the past depending on the
make up of the council. That is why they send all contested cases to an
administrative law judge for determination of guilt and a recommendation of the
appropriate penalty. All penalties that the council levies can be taken to
court for judicial review.
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