I find it unfortunate that Tim finds the discussion over the use of public land "abstract" and Guy decrys our "litigious society" over the public /private use of public land.
Looking back on the three cases I was involved with: 1. The exclusion of two 13 year old girls from a "boys" bicycle race in Louisville; 2. The exclusion of men from a race using Minneapolis Park land, and 3. The exclusion of the Pro-Life Protesters from the sidewalk in front of Planned Parenthood, the common thread in these three cases was that a private entity was given use of public land and then promptly excluded a given group, violating someone's rights. If you were one of those whose rights were violated, you would not find these discussions "abstract", and the litigation would never have occurred, if the public entities involved and those who were given the right to use the public land had exercised some common sense in the first place. I fear that Guy wants to blame the victims, (those who were excluded and had their rights violated), rather than those who perpetrated the exclusion and discrimination. If we can resolve these issues in advance, in public forums like this, there would be a lot less need for litigation. Litigation arises because there is not a common understanding. Dan Dobson Summit Hill --- Guy Western <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [Original Message] > > From: List Manager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: St. Paul Issues Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 7/15/04 1:30:04 AM > > Subject: [StPaul] Free Speech Discussion > > > > Just a note to remind folks that the "FREE SPEECH" > discussion is > > getting a little too abstract for this forum. > > Precisely. At this point I hope that the discussion > has served to > demonstrate in a practical way that there IS a real > difference between a > commercial sales pitch and politically-oriented free > speech (even when > including a solicitation) and that any reasonable > mind can recognize that > difference without reducing it to the Supreme > Court's abstractions. > Constitutional litigation also generates a kind wind > power, but if you're > looking for something that will actually turn your > windmill. . . you'll > have to keep looking. > > In a larger sense, I think this says a lot about why > we have a proverbial > "litigious society" when proponents so readily > abandon common sense for the > sake of ideologically prevailing in political > discussion. > > Are we really going to step on the right of citizens > in a democracy to > conduct politics of any stripe in public just > because it intrudes on my > right to shop in an atmosphere of consumeristic > euphoria because, if I > close my good eye, I can convince myself there's no > difference between a > political advocate, who may or may not accept > campaign donations, and a > vendor required to rent stall space? I don't think > so. > > - Guy Western > the West Side > > _____________________________________________ > To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _____________________________________________ > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your > password - visit: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > Archive Address: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
