Tom, all, Olson Memorial Highway (55) runs through St. Paul, which is the reason I suspect this topic has remained on this list so long, and undoubtedly the name change would have to go through the State Legislature, concerning the St. Paul delegation of legislators. So, I don't know about you, Tom, but I've linked my posts back to St. Paul plenty of times. Finally, if Tom is so insistent that this topic is not relevant to St.Paul and should not be discussed in this forum, why continue arguing it, and then yell for an effective "calling off of the dogs"? One must either argue the issue or advocate that the topic is not relevant to the list; a credible advocate for either doesn't get to do both. Still eagerly anticipating a well-argued defense regarding the credibility of an argument argued via phrases like "communist regime slayer," Erin Stojan Ward 7 Dayton's Bluff ps Economic and political systems are imperically different systems, and it's not just me saying so---the entire study of political science says so. Certainly, they interact with each other closely, but they are different. Capitalism is not synonymous with democracy, just as socialism is not synonymous with autocracy or oligarchy (in fact, the US had a role in overthrowing socialist democracies, but that's *really* not pertinent to St. Paul; email me individually to discuss this further). Please, by all means, debate socialism vs. capitalism, or democracy vs. oligarchy (and make it relevant to St. Paul when you argue on this list!), but it's not correct to compare between them.
Tom & Elsa Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "ps By the way, in the most technical sense of the term, socialism, communism, and capitalism are all economic systems; democracy, oligarcy, monarchy, autocracy, etc. are political ones, and combinations of economic and political systems are possible, but they remain separate systems. " While socialism and communism may be considered economic systems and democracy, etc considered political systems; I don't think that people who lived under those systems consider themselves free. Nor do I think they would say that they had free elections, which a democracy would require. You are advocating a system of government where all incentive to succeed, all incentive to better ones self is gone. Government will take care of you, you don't need to do anything. These systems have always and will always fail. Because people want to be free from government intrusion and once they taste freedom they will not go back to these systems. "I didn't call anyone on this forum dumb" and "Right-wing fanatics at their dumbest (or most entertaining, take your pick)." I guess I'll have to take you at your word, but it sounds and reads to me like I was called a right wing fanatic and dumb, for having beliefs different than yours. Guess to me it seems that the right wing (Republicans) have a much bigger tent and more inclusive of new ideas and dissent from others and within their own party than the left wing (Democrats). "It's pretty sad when people think that working for "the common good, (and) the welfare and happiness of all" is socialism or communism." I never said government wasn't there to provide certain things, primarily security and protection. However, when one states that all government should do is promote the "common good" that to me sounds like a socialistic state. When one talks about governments primary role as being for the "welfare" of all, that sounds socialistic to me. I want government to get out of the way of people being able to better themselves. And sure your going to say that people will pollute everything and step on anyone to get ahead. You can believe that if you wish. I happen to believe that people are inherently good, and they will usually do what is right while moving ahead. For those couple who don't then go after them, but don't label everyone or start banning things because one or two people step out of line. Work to get them in line, government doesn't have to babysit and be there for every need someone has. Independence and self reliance. Initiative and motivation. Words we need more of from individuals and less from government. I say again, this thread is not appropriate for this forum, it is philosophical and not St Paul specific. I will however, respond to statements made about me. So, Tim, please have people refrain from continuing this this type of thread. Tom Thompson Como Park _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ ----------------------------------------- There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!--- Mario Savio ------------------------------------------ Erin Stojan Dayton's Bluff, Ward 7 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
