First of all I guess we need to define what terrorism is before we can answer the question of "Could It Happen Here?". I've seen responses calling the school shootings in the US terrorism. I've seen other accusations of State sponsored terrorism (i.e., acts of war, genocide by a government against it's citizens).
I believe that terrorism is about an organized group of people using the tactics of fear against innocent civilians. This is not about acts of war done by/against other uniformed/organized combatants, whether state sponsored or insurgent sponsored. In other words I don't see the attacks on US Convoys in Iraq as terrorism, however, the bombings in Baghdad in the markets I see as terrorism. I don't see the US school shootings as terrorism because the perpetrators are arrested or killed and their intent was not to instill fear that their "group" would form another attack on innocents somewhere else. The school shooters were just sociopathic criminals. Most murders cause fear in people, but are just crimes committed criminals not terrorism. I see terrorism as groups like Al Qaeda, Hamas, Al Aqsa Brigade, ELF, Symbionese Liberation Army, etc. They use the fear of similar acts being done at any time, any place and you better prepared. I don't see all terrorism as Muslim related, only the type of terrorism we are talking about in this question. I see ELF (Earth Liberation Front) as a terrorist group, but it uses terror against specific type targets and not the general population. So for the context of "Could it happen here?", I did not include those type groups. The Chechnyian separatist group has ties to other Muslim terrorist groups, such as Al Qaeda. That is how I tie them into St Paul. If the groups that have declared war on us see something work and cause such utter devastation somewhere, do you really believe they would not use it against us here in St Paul? I really hope that the St Paul school district is looking into how to protect our kids from a similar attack and not making excuses for why it couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't happen here. I believe that the Black September group was a Muslim group wanting a separate Palestinian state. I believe ties from that group went to other groups supporting that cause and are still being practiced today. Sure there are government leaders around the world who use terror, however, most of them use terror to suppress the people within their country. That does not impact us here in St Paul, so I did not include that. These type of leaders are interested in maintaining their power within their borders and are generally not a threat to St Paul, in my opinion. The only threat I can see tying over to St Paul would be the fact that some people here may take up the cause and create trouble here in the name of either the the leader or the citizens of the country. The South/Central American slaughter of many by their government was an internal civil war. Again maybe terroristic to the citizens of that country but having no effect here on St Paul. Except that people may use that as an example to thwart the real threat we are facing here in St Paul. I agree that all acts of terrorism are deplorable by any race, ethnicity, country, group, etc. I agree that criminal acts are deplorable. But that does not mean that the main threat that I believe St Paul (and the rest of the country) has right now is from Muslim fundamentalists. Not all Muslims are terrorists, certainly. But we need more reaction against the ones who are by the local Muslim community. We need to have more activism done in a positive fashion to counter the fear being created by the Jhihadists. We need to have the courage to say who our main enemy is the war on terror. Until we do that we can't win or even contain the war. When we make apologies for terrorist groups because of the fear that we will be labeled "racist" or only against "them", we are losing the war. Make no mistake, this is a war. The Muslim extremists have declared war on all of us. An attack could come at any place, at any time, including St Paul. The arrests of "suspected" extremists may be clouded by my belief that Law Enforcement is doing a good job and trying to protect us. If we are going to make excuses and throw the word "racism" or "racist" or any form of bigotry we cannot have a conversation about what terrorism is. I see the threat my way and worry about the lives of all in St Paul from death, dismemberment and suicide bombings. Others see the threat as words rather than actions. You may believe that I lump all Muslims into one group when I don't, and I may believe that you are more afraid of lumping anyone (except those of the GOP or right wing) into a negative connotation. If this is the type of thinking and excuse making going on in our City Government than I am even more afraid today than I was yesterday. Because rather than prepare for an attack, we are preparing to find an excuse as to why the attack happened and excuse those who perpetrated it. If our St Paul schools are being secured and made safe by this type of thinking I am really afraid for our children. Hopefully we can come to an agreement on what terrorism is, and what the threat we face is. Until then I don't see how we in St Paul can prepare ourselves or our community against this real threat. Tom Thompson Como Park Original Message: Can you provide your rational for the statement that terrorism is "mainly a Muslim method"? Beyond the simple disrespect I think it shows to one of the world's largest faith communities, a simple comparison of the world's population of Muslims and Terrorists should suggest that terrorism is at most practiced by a distant fraction of the Muslim population. There are also the litany of non-Muslim terrorists in the world, some of them masquerading as "legitamate" government leaders. This says nothing of the uncredited constructive contributions that Muslims are making in the world at large and perhaps, in our own backyard. It is even more distressing that this comment would come in a thread about the safety of our schools. "Could it happen here?" Perhaps. But the great majority of school terrorism that has been manifest in our country's schools has not been perpetrated by religious or ethnic minorities. Just my two cents. Matt Flory Mac Groveland Original message: Your comparison of what happens in a complicated region of the world that has been beset by ethnic strife for centuries with what might happen in this country at the hands of terrorists would be laughable if not for the fact that you appear to be deadly serious (no pun intended). But it is rather sad to see you have such an ignorant recall of historical events. Do you really think that the death squads operating in Guatemala, Nicaragua, and El Salvador that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of civilians in the 1980s weren't engaged in acts of terrorism? And do you think that because the U.S. and the Reagan administration only aided and abetted those groups, rather than actually directing them, they weren't complicit in the terrorism? How about Operation Phoenix during the Vietnam War, where the CIA led an operation that resulted in the deaths of somewhere between 50,000 (CIA claim) and 100,000 (media sources) North Vietnamese civilians? What, if it's state-sponsored, it's not terrorism? What does this have to do with St. Paul? Probably nothing. But if you're going to stray way off topic, at least use some credible information. And in case you missed it, the killings at the Munich Olympics in 1972 were carried out by the Black September extremist group seeking a Palestinian state. Do you really believe that the only people who have ever committed terroristic acts in the Israeli-Arab conflict the past fifty or so years were Muslims? Try Jews, Christians, and a few other denominations as well. Menachem Begin, the one time prime minister of Israel, was part of a terrorist Israeli network that attacked the British occupation of Israel, blew up a hotel, engaged in sniper attacks, etc. Somehow we have tolerated those acts through the lens of history as being the work of freedom fighters, but any other such heinous attack is only carried out by mongrel dog jihadists. The reality is that all terrorism is appalling. As is the proposed solution that you advocate: militarizing the country. We can seal our borders, and it won't do anything to end poverty, create jobs (other than with Homeland Security, of course), provide affordable health care, develop sustainable energy sources, protect the environment, etc. Republicans, except for those who allied themselves with the John Birch society, used to understand this. A pity that your misplaced fear over something that hypothetically might occur in St. Paul skews you opinions so dramatically. You're just as likely to get injured or killed in a traffic accident when you're on the job as a police officer as be the victim of some terrorist lying in the midst somewhere in the metro area. Did it ever occur to you that the arrests of suspected "terrorists" is about racism and fear, and not based on credible evidence? I realize that your background in law enforcement might lead you to believe that only good arrests are being made in these cases, but remember when we rounded up all the Japanese Americans during World War II? What, exactly, is the difference between that and how the U.S. is treating any foreign national in this country right now? Tom Goldstein Mac-Groveland _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
