Ahh! Thanks!! That was a big help, and nice to know the may ways to do it. 

Armed with this understanding I actually implemented a entirely different
solution: I instance "unbound" objects in the bean and only bind them to a
database content when i need to do something with them. Works like a charm and
give me the best of both worlds -- stripes for input and validation and cayenne
for binding and persistence. 

I will need to use what you educated me on to instance objects and then populate
them with existing data (e.g. update and existing object), so it's very useful. 

thanks a ton!

dan 



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