-----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Revusky Sent: November 13, 2003 2:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or, really, to put it bluntly, I was not addressing you, Steve.
If you wanted a private conversation, you should have emailed Craig directly.
I made my points publicly by choice.
I chose my words carefully. You had the right to reply. I simply stated that your reply was not helpful. I specifically took issue with the implicit arguments that Craig was making, and, since Craig, to my knowledge, never appointed you as his spokesman, you were not in a position to clear up the issue.
PERSONALLY,
Good, I see you are a quick study. You do realize that you can only legitimately speak for yourself.
I think that linking to Basebeans now creates more confusion
and doubt for Struts users than it does assistance.
Well, this strikes me as utter nonsense. What you are saying amounts to the idea that you would reduce "confusion" by filtering such a list of links based on the political correctness of the individuals involved. Now, with with no such filtering, the situation is hardly "confusing", is it? Let's see... a page contains a list of companies that provide struts-related services. BaseBeans provides such services, and thus appears on the page.
Now, if I am a Struts user in the market for such services, am I better served (and less "confused") by a list that is filtered based on the political correctness of the individuals providing the services?
I think not.
In fact, this is such obvious nonsense that, quite frankly, I doubt that you believe it yourself. And I already stated that I perceived a lack of honesty on your side of the dialogue, a definite smell of bad faith in the air.
After all, Vic is saying that Apache has acted unlawfully, which might give potential users cause to not use Apache software, including Struts. I don't see why we should promote that.
Promoting what? Look, if you disagree with Vic's statements, rebut the statements. What does this have to do with filtering a list of links of companies providing struts-related services based on the "political reliability" of the people providing said services?
Moreover, the record is clear. Craig's commit message pretty clearly indicated that the removal was retaliation for Vic having made certain statements. Note the following extract: "not to benefit from the free advertising value of being visible on the Struts web site."
The whole idea that somebody says things that you don't like, so you're going to try to retaliate against them makes me extremely uncomfortable. And note that the fact that few others express their discomfort does not necessarily mean it sets well with them...
I would have a greater tendency to carefully consider any points that
Vic raises in the future.
That's your prerogative. Perhaps if you'd seen some of Vic's ramblings, as I have, you might think differently and be as tired of them as I am. Please check the mail archives before getting too upset on Vic's behalf.
If you're accusing Vic of improper behavior, then don't vaguely point to the mail archives. Provide actual links.
In any case, my position is that it's irrelevant anyway. It seems clear enough that there is an attempt to retaliate against someone for political speech that you disapprove of. I object to the idea of an attempt to retaliate against someone for speaking his mind. In terms of this basic principle, it is actually not important whether the political speech in question was coherent or were "ramblings", as you characterize them.
There are 21 Struts committers, none of whom has objected to the web
site update. That should speak volumes.
Well, sure it speaks volumes. It would mean that they're a bunch of spineless toadies.
<shrug>
Note that, if Ted Husted is a struts committer (that I don't know) then your statement is no longer true.
Unless any of them have concerns I suggest we return the list to the business of discussing Struts development.
Steve, as I said bluntly before, nobody was addressing you, yet you chose to enter the thread nonetheless. And I have already suggested that your entering the thread was most unhelpful.
Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Using FreeMarker with Struts: http://freemarker.org/docs/pgui_misc_servlet.html
Steve
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