While the push model has traditionally been encouraged with Turbine, you can
also use pull-MVC model without any major problems. Whether the push or the
pull model is right for you depends on the nature of your application.
The learning curve associated with Turbine is a little steeper, but it is
also more powerful than struts. For one, you are not limited to JSP for the
presentation. In fact, I would imagine most people that use Turbine don't
use JSP. There is a slick templating language called Velocity
(http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity), and I would imagine that more often
than not this is used in favor of JSP with Turbine.
I am currently on a project using Turbine/Velocity and it works very well.
In all fairness it was a pain in the ass to overcome some of the
shortcomings in the documentation, some of it was outright misleading.
However, you should be able to come up to speed in a good day, or at most a
few of days....
Good luck!
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 2:33 PM
To: Troy Hart
Subject: RE: Alternative Frameworks - continued
My team did an evaluation of Turbine and struts three months ago and Turbine
has some advantages, but while we had trouble getting both Turbine and
struts to work, Turbine was impossible while struts was merely difficult. I
also think the pull-MVC model that struts uses is superior in the long-run
to Turbine's push model.
I'm happy to report that my team is actively developing with struts and that
we have overcome the difficulties most usually have to overcome when
learning struts (and likely any new framework).
Bellow is my original message with comparison data, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Brown
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:46 PM
To: Turbine; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Yogieric (E-mail)
Subject: App framework eval: Turbine and/or Struts - Push vs. Pull MVC
I'm looking for an application framework for future work at my company and
am considering Turbine, Stuts and a few others. (My company currently uses
IIS/ASP/SQL Server and will move to apache/Java app server, Tomcat first and
Resin later as performance dictates, and Oracle.) Turbine seems to have the
most features including Torque (DB abstraction) and a personalization engine
that are important to me. However, as the push versus pull MVC paradigms
(http://java.apache.org/turbine/pullmodel.html) recently discussed on the
Turbine list concluded, Turbine's preferred UI language, Velocity, is a push
model that does not allow me to develop tag-like APIs for my UI/HTML
designers the way struts does, a pull MVC model. I believe Turbine allows
raw JSP that would allow me to use Turbine AND struts where appropriate
although I'm not sure that's the best answer either.
Pri Issue ASP JSP Enhydra Struts Turbine
XML/XSL
1 Separate UI from business logic XXX X XXX
X
1 Database abstraction layer XXX XXX
1 Reliable, Stable and scaleable XXX XXX XXX ? ?
?
1 Growth path X XX XX XXX XXX
XX
1 Error validation and reporting ? X? ?
1 Error message separation ? ? ?
1 Reasonably Fast XXX XXX ? ? ?
X?
2 Very Fast XX XX ? ? ?
?
2 Personalization Engine X
2 Source code availability X X XX XXX
X
2 Longevity -- Been around XXX XX XX X X
X
2 Code reusability XXX XXX XX
XX
2 Documentation XXX XXX XX X X
XX
2 HTML form rich API ? X? ?
2 Early compilation XXX ? ?
XX
2 Vendor Freedom X XXX XX XXX XXX
XXX
2 MVC Pull model ? XXX ?
3 MVC Push model ? XXX
XX
3 Strict API enforcement XXX XXX
XXX
3 API Extensibility XXX XXX X
XX
3 Internationalization ? X? X?
X
3 File Upload API ? ? X?
I've tried to note what I know exists in each framework. The legend is as
follows:
X - Feature exists
XX - Feature exists and is reasonably good
XXX - Feature exists and is great
? - Feature might exist, unsure
X? - Feature exists but quality is unknown
ASP - IIS, ChiliSoft, Perl::ASP
Straight JSP - See www.javasoft.com
Enhydra - See www.enhydra.org
Struts - See jakarta.apache.org
Turbine - See java.apache.org
XML/XSL - M$ Implements on ASP, Cocoon (java.apache.org), Resin
(www.caucho.com)
Other priorities relevant to web server, internal process, etc., but not to
application framework:
Priority - Issue
1 - Staff Training Resources
1 - Must run in J2EE environment (Tomcat 3.2)
1 - Portability, ability to migrate from NT to UNIX easily
1 - Security
2 - Easy Deployment
2 - Logging/audit system
2 - Ability to debug
2 - Search
3 - Voice/WML/Alternate presentation format support
3 - Reporting system
4 - Content Management (other than Perforce)
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Yumul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 1:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Alternative Frameworks - continued
Does anybody have comparisons betweeen Turbine & Struts?
Rich
Richard M. Yumul
Polexis, Inc.
Direct: 619-542-7209
Fax: 619-542-8675
http://www.polexis.com
transforming data into knowledge
