On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, David Graham wrote:
> Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:28:34 -0600
> From: David Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [OT] RE: Persistence Framework Comparison?
>
> I think you missed the point. Yes, JDO lets you program to an interface
> with multiple vendors competing on implementations. But what if you don't
> want to use JDO?
>
> This is a layer above all persistence frameworks (JDBC, JDO, EJB, OJB, etc.)
> that your application programs to. If you decide to change persistence
> frameworks, most of your code remains unchanged because it doesn't know
> which one you're using.
>
> I, and others, have rolled our own but I think it would be useful for
> Jakarta Commons to provide this framework (similar to their logging api).
>
On this general topic, there was talk a while back on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] about starting up a new top-level Apache
project (db.apache.org) to collect design patterns and implementations in
the general area of database access -- and this would certainly make an
appropriate home for something like a persistence layer interface. Things
like commons-dbcp would probably end up migrating here as well.
Sadly, I don't think there's been any substantive progress on setting up
the infrastructure, yet.
> Dave
Craig
>
>
> >From: "James Higginbotham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: Persistence Framework Comparison?
> >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:18:10 -0500
> >
> >Oh, then what you are looking for is the ODMG API for object databases,
> >Sun's JDO (not Castor's JDO), or something similar. That is the purpose
> >of those 2 APIs at least, abstracting object storage frameworks.
> >
> >James
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: V. Cekvenich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 4:03 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: Persistence Framework Comparison?
> > >
> > >
> > > (Sorry, I can't read inline comments)
> > > "I'm curious why you think there would be any glue code needed?"
> > >
> > > It would not be Struts centric, agree. I have said to you Craig in
> > > person that I think one of the many reasons Struts was so
> > > successful is
> > > that it stayed above the persistence fey.
> > >
> > > My wish was for a persistence or a ADO interface, and
> > > interface only, in
> > > Jakarta or else where respected.
> > >
> > > When the person I responded to said words to the effect " it
> > > was painful
> > > to switch persistence frameworks" I said I wish there was an
> > > interface.
> > >
> > > If there were such an interface one could switch from JDO to
> > > ORB to OJB
> > > to EJB to Simper to DAORowset to xyz, assuming other followed the
> > > interface. Let them compete.
> > >
> > > Such interfaces would have to be very light weight. (Ex:
> > > find(), save(),
> > > commit(), getProperty(""); setProperty("", Object))
> > >
> > > It could be used by anyone, not just all beans! WebServices,
> > > JTable, etc.
> > >
> > > What it allows clients to do is make it easier to switch persistence
> > > layer that they outgrow or does not have good support, etc.
> > >
> > > Sort of like we say presentation layer should be replaceable
> > > and X:tag
> > > and Stxx lets you go PDF or else, same shold be on persistence. We
> > > should be able to switch.
> > >
> > > The glue is not one of my reasons at all. But it would make Struts
> > > examples better. (One Struts book out there has a getter
> > > property that
> > > accesses the db connection.... in the getter!! But that is
> > > not a Struts
> > > issue.)
> > >
> > > This is not just theory, my clients use a DAO interface I
> > > made up, that
> > > I can wrap around major persistence layers. The beans are
> > > isolated from
> > > how this happens, and it works.
> > > (this interfaces is public in a "good practices" sample Struts app,
> > > everyone knows were).
> > >
> > > hth,
> > > V.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, James Higginbotham wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:11:53 -0500
> > > >>From: James Higginbotham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>Subject: RE: Persistence Framework Comparison?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>>(I wish Struts had a non implemented persistance interface)
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Really? I think Struts is quite good at what it does, and to me,
> > > >>>persistence seems to outside the scope of a web application MVC
> > > >>>framework.
> > > >>
> > > >>Agreed. Struts does what it does best - web MVC framework. What the
> > > >>original author of the comments (sorry, lost in my mailbox
> > > right now)
> > > >>is looking for is what I would recommend happen on top of Struts.
> > > >>Something that takes Struts, a proven OSS O/R framework,
> > > and some glue
> > > >>to make DB-driven Struts applications faster to develop.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If I ever had time to work on such a framework, I'd
> > > probably do it in
> > > > the Commons project at Apache, because it would be generally useful
> > > > (both inside and outside of Struts). Alas, given my work schedule,
> > > > assuming I'd have time for this is probably wishful thinking :-).
> > > >
> > > > But, I'm curious why you think there would be any glue code
> > > needed?
> > > > Isn't it just a matter of using the persistence framework directly
> > > > from your DAOs (or from your Actions if you don't use
> > > DAOs)? At most,
> > > > I could only conceive of perhaps providing a Struts PlugIn to
> > > > initialize such a framework, but maybe I'm missing something.
> > > >
> > > > What would definitely be useful is some example apps that
> > > illustrate
> > > > how apps can leverage things like this. There are several
> > > pointers in
> > > > the Resources pages to such things.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Anything like that out there? Anyone working on this or have one in
> > > >>the planning stages? I've been wanting to craft one myself, but
> > > >>haven't had the time. But if one existed, I'd problem knock out a
> > > >>couple of pet projects faster.
> > > >>
> > > >>James
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:struts-user-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For
> > > additional commands,
> > > e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
