There are some other logs I check, but I'll have to bone-up on the documentation first, since it's been awhile since I need to use them.
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-Ted.
Brandon Goodin wrote:
WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE REMOVE THIS FOOL!!!!!!!!!
Brandon Goodin
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Subject: RE: Justifying Struts From: "Brandon Goodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:37:45 -0600 To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ya I just started coding a project in PHP. I love the spaghetti code and complete lack of structural rules :-D
Other such loves...
1) I love how there are no namespaces 2) I love the mish-mash of procedural and object oriented principals. 3) I love the lack of scope to store objects or basic string data in general (no application scope, weak request scope, and, from #2, a procedural/oo page scope that makes you wanna scream) 4) Loose (obsurdly) typing that can and DOES encourage crappy programming. 5) I love how at every chance they attempt to borrow from java, but due to their underpinnings always wind up seriously short and still find room to cut down java.
My advice to PHP... MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!! :-))
Anyways, that's my .02,
Brandon Goodin
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:17 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Justifying Struts
I'm with you, Mike! That's why I stopped using this confounded framework and returned to good ole ASP....
Mark
I've heard about Struts and have researched it over the last few hours. The MVC approach makes sense, but I'm still not sold on it yet. Here are some doubts I have.
1) I think the separation of presentation (view) from the model and controller has gone too far (or probably is not done well in Struts). For example, I like to have my front end developers do form (field) validation. These developers should not have to write beans to do this (all examples I've seen so far do form validation in Java beans). This somewhat contradicts the J2EE development model where "application developers", who are basically scripters (not OO developers), do the front end work.
2) There is just too much junk to write to do a simple form. The samples I've seen have involve too many files to do a simple form. Plus, why should I have to write a new bean for each form. Why can't the bean either be generated automatically or there be a general purpose bean (with properties that are created dynamically) that works for all forms?
3) We already separate business logic nicely, usually by encapsulating the logic in beans or EJBs. By the time the "application developers" get to work writing JSP/HTML, they are not writing any business logic. So why add the overhead of Struts (or any other framework)?
4) Because we separate out business logic into beans and EJBs, Java is simply used as a scripting langauge in our JSPs - in just the same way that VBScript is used in Active Server Pages. We try not to confuse the object oriented language called Java, with the scripting language called Java that we use in JSPs. We use a very small subset of Java in JSPs.
5) Based on #4, I don't particularly care for taglibs either. Again, we are simply using Java to do simple scripting. Loops are probably the most complex thing we do. So why add the extra overhead of taglibs. A loop is a loop whether it has the syntax of Java or a taglib. Plus, if I want my front-end developers to get any experience with serious development, I'd rather have them dealing with Java as opposed to taglibs, which have no value in the real world of programming.
6) Performance is unknown. I've looked through the mail archives and have seen requests for performance figures, but no answers (plenty of folks pushing Struts though).
Mike
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-- Ted Husted, Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>
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