Sorry, long reply. My first thoughts on JSF were that it looked really powerful and was a blast of fresh air. I think it's an excellent idea to have the ability to define controls and then have them rendered in a manner suitable for the target device with pluggable renderers. My only concern was that this was being done using XSLT (I think it is) - and from a personal experience viewpoint I've always found XSLT a resource hog on the server and slow when used by lots of users - but I am happy to be persuaded once I get to actually trying JSF.
I'm grateful to whoever it was who provided the struts-JSF integration work as this allows me to see JSF working with my favourite web development framework! It's on my list to check-out and will happen in the next couple of weeks - so I'll be happy to report some more informed comments at that point! I'm very enthusiastic about "Java Everywhere". Sun was really strong when all it did was "talk java" - java was _and_ _still_ _is_ a fantastic vision - you've just got to look at the number of mobile phone companies who've licenced java for mobile phones just recently. Java has experienced slower take-up than initially expected - but one can't help feeling that the view that was touted frequently a couple of years ago that java would die-out because it didn't explode overnight and wasn't immediately "used for everything" - has been proven completely false. Java is growing - and as netcraft reported - it is growing very rapidly: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/23/jsp_continues_fast_growth_on_a_ surprisingly_diverse_set_of_operating_systems.html With the use of java on mobile phones - that will almost certainly "grow-up" to become devices to rival our current set of PDA-type devices - bringing java with them as the central VM on these devices. Sun obviously needs to offer something to counter Microsoft's .NET initiative. I know what I'm talking about here - I've run a few .NET courses and developed a few .NET apps. My problem with .NET and with many other people I speak to - is that it's tied totally to the Windows Operating System and involves a massive learning curve for traditional VB and ASP developers. That said, show a developer ASP.NET's ability to do "GUI" development of web applications with "viewstate" and transparent execution of server-side "button" code - "just like VB does" - and they can finally envisage writing web applications rather than GUI-based ones. Then show them a demo of a cut-down version of the same page working seamlessly with a "downlevel" (Microsoft-speak for non-Microsoft!) browser or handheld device or WAP phone and they can envisage writing apps for mobile devices as well - in exactly the same GUI way they've been used to writing VB apps. How can this equivalent functionality be catered for in struts? Well, for a start you need to code for the specific device - struts cannot magically produce WML instead of HTML for a WAP device. Sure, you can do it - but only by writing the JSP page in a way that it will output WML, changing the ContentType header appropriately as well. Ok, my personal view, at the moment is that a well-designed struts app will allow proper separation of view, anyway so it just needs for a template in WML to be created - chances are this will give a better end result. My understanding is that JSF will bring this functionality to web-based java applications - hopefully with a nice GUI development environment - so this will offer the same kind of "oh, wow" reaction that showing this kind of demo to the uninitiated always does! But, maybe - just maybe, JSF will deliver on the early promises and will become a truly indispensible view technology (and maybe a lot more) - time, as always will tell. Again, the licensing model for JSF will be another thing that one needs to be comfortable with - I understand it will not be Open Source ... but then neither is java. If Sun start asking for silly royalties: per server; per CPU; per Company; then, sorry I'm not sure it's a goer - as .NET is free for unlimited deployment: public-facing or whatever - it's only the Visual Studio.NET development IDE that is charged-for. Ok, admittedly only on a Microsoft OS so they've had money anyway. The only way I can see that Sun can get close to the "java everywhere"-type vision is that the use of JSF will be as unencumbered as java currently is and will realise widescale use - Ok, where's the revenue stream in that you might ask - well don't ask me because I don't immediately know ... but I can see how it is great for java (and for Sun) and for the rest of us if it turns-out half as good as it promises to be. Hue. > -----Original Message----- > From: Reinhard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 11 August 2003 21:30 > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Interesting JSF info > > > > Java (to Sun) is like Windows (to Microsoft): The browser is > part of the > > OS. In the same vain it will come down to this: JSF is part of Java so > > therefore that is what you should use (as your one and only > framework). Can > > you imagine MS saying, no, use NS in concert with IE? > > I believe, you're right! > > When I first get in contact with JSF - I thought: Hell, let me > never have to > use that. > But I fear, Sun is to powerful on that item. > > > Java is destined to be everything to everybody. > > I believe, that point will never fullfill. Same with .NET > Nor Java, nor .NET is good for anything and better than > everything. Not for > the language and not for the environment. But, ... both companies > are telling > us just this, but each item has it's (different) focus. > > I hope, that apache and their comunity could play a third role > and keep on > inventing goodies like struts or ojb. > > cheers Reinhard > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
