Yes I too have worked on Microsoft Systems where you drag and drop components into a Frame and voila you have a functional web page.
1)First a general feeling if uneasiness about integrating the classic Monolithic Microsoft Component Structure into a working Distributed Environment The idea of integrating so much functionality to be handled by one component gives me a very uneasy feeling.
Well, I think a lot of times how much is "handled" by one component is a matter of the component's design. And when you have a rich set of components to choose from, you can pick more granular ones or more complex ones, depending on your disposition. And, call me crazy, but I have better things to do than write the code necessary to support a full-featured data grid. As the people at companies like Infragistics will tell you, there's a hell of a lot of functionality you can add to a data grid. Personally, I'd rather work on the specific nuances of the system I'm trying to build.
For one thing the dependencies between components are not known. In the Microsoft world DB's generally have to be ODBC or not work at all. A more verifiable result is implementing the wrong version of component and you have a disaster..
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. Since I did Delphi development, I wasn't aware of any ODBC-specific constraints. My Achilles heel was the Borland Database Engine (BDE). But I won't go into detail about that monstrosity. Using the BDE wasn't a requirement, though, and there were alternative ways to do things. (I think Borland has axed the BDE for good, finally).
Also, I wasn't trying to say that Microsoft's way of doing things is better or anything like that. I'm just saying that user interface component-oriented development (RAD, back in the day) yields productivity gains. Microsoft is the most well-known promoter of GUI components, but they're certainly not the only one.
2)Finally I would like to request (Specifically) which IDE's handle JSF today
Since JSF isn't even in beta yet, you're not going to find any full-fledged IDEs that support it. My FAQ (http://www.jsfcentral.com/faq/) talks about the companies involved (which includes all of the major Java IDE players), and has some links to quasi-announcements they've made :-).
Kito D. Mann Author, JSF in Action www.JSFCentral.com - JSF FAQ, news, and info
Thank You,
Marty Gainty http://www.laconiadatasystems.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kito D. Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 7:55 PM Subject: Re: JavaServer Faces
> Matt, > > This looks like a great taglib -- I wish I had found it when I was working > on some past projects :-). In the JSF world, this would be a component that > you would use the same way -- with a simple taglib. I'm assuming that this > type of functionality is what the highly anticipated JSF "grid" will > provide in the next release of JSF (maybe Craig can extrapolate). There's > an example of a much less capable, but similar, component in JSF EA4. The > main difference between the component and taglib approach is that in the > component world, all of this functionality would be implemented by a > component/renderer pair. The component itself would be a JavaBean, so it'd > have methods, properties, and events, and integrate with tools. You could > even have a JavaBeans customizer that would allow you to find and connect > to the data source with a wizard interface. You could also develop > different renderers, so perhaps one would output HTML and another might > work for a WML device. Renderers are separate from the component itself, so > all of the basic properties, like the data source, wouldn't have to be > changed for a new device -- only the renderer. > > Anyway, we're probably getting a little too off-topic, so drop me a line > personally if you want to chat more :-). > > Kito D. Mann > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Author, JSF in Action > www.JSFCentral.com - JSF FAQ, news, and info > > At 06:37 PM 10/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Here is an example of something I do a lot of w/Struts: > >http://displaytag.sf.net > > > >(that Matt contributed to) > >You can click on examples link (uper right) to see nested, pagination, etc. > > > >Using your skill and experience you listed, can you show something similar? > > > >.V > > > >Kito D. Mann wrote: > >>At 11:20 AM 10/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >>>I watched a presentation on JSF last night. Here's my high-level > >>>impressions: > >>> > >>>1. It's a replacement for Struts (no matter what folks say). > >> > >>It may be in the long-term, but it won't be in version 1.0. I think the > >>combination of the two is pretty powerful. > >> > >>>2. It's basically Swing for the Web. > >> > >>True. > >> > >>>3. It's more difficult than Struts. > >> > >>I think it might be more difficult for people who haven't worked with > >>desktop-oriented GUI frameworks like Swing, Delphi's VCL, or Visual Basic > >>OCXs (and likewise .NET). Once you get used to a more component-oriented > >>approach, it's a lot more efficient. Most of the people I know who > >>develop complex desktop GUIs with tools like Delphi feel that the servlet > >>development is a step backwards, even with great frameworks like Struts. > >>I also think that JSF will be easier to swallow than Swing, but that's > >>based on my limited Swing experience (I've done a lot more Delphi desktop > >>development than Swing). > >>Anyway, that's my two cents, as someone who's familiar with JSF and has > >>also worked with Struts, ASP.NET WebForms, and tools like Delphi. > >>This topic has been beat to death all over the place; you can find out > >>more on my site, JSFCentral.com. There's a FAQ there that addresses some > >>Struts/Faces questions. > >>Kito D. Mann > >>Author, JSF in Action > >> > >>>Basically, I'm not impressed. I think they're going to have do a lot to > >>>make it easier to learn and easier to develop with. It seems that a lot of > >>>"Experts" are touting that it'll be easy to develop because it's a > >>>*standard* and IDEs will support it. I'll believe it when I see it > >>>considering I still use HTML editors to edit JSPs and JSTL (because Homesite > >>>is still the best JSP editor IMO). > >>> > >>>Read more at http://tinyurl.com/qbyk. > >>> > >>>These are just my opinions - so take them with a grain of salt. > >>> > >>>Matt > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 6:58 PM > >>>To: Struts Users Mailing List > >>>Subject: Re: JavaServer Faces > >>> > >>> > >>>It's not an either/or decision. > >>> > >>>http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/faqs/kickstart.html#jsf > >>> > >>>Though, Struts is superior in the sense you can use it in a shipping > >>>application. JSF is still in early release. > >>> > >>>HTH, Ted. > >>> > >>>Horky Adam G A1C 805 CSPTS/SCBE wrote: > >>> > Does anyone know enough about Struts and JavaServer Faces to provide an > >>> > opinion about the superiority of one over the other? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > A1C Adam G Horky > >>> > > >>> > Application Development Programmer, SCBE > >>> > > >>> > (618)256-2300 > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Kito D. Mann . [EMAIL PROTECTED] .Virtua, Inc. > > <<..existence doesn't necessarily mean living...>> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Kito D. Mann > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Virtua, Inc. > 203-323-1244 > 203-323-2363 (fax) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
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Kito D. Mann . [EMAIL PROTECTED] .Virtua, Inc.<<..existence doesn't necessarily mean living...>>
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