Tomeu Vizoso writes:
> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 04:54,  <forster at ozonline.com.au> wrote:

>> I am happy to expand this to the list. I have raised the journal once
>> or twice before but mainly kept quiet not wanting to be trollish.
...
>> The journal and sharing are probably the two central things that
>> distinguish sugar as as a purpose built learning platform. The team have
>> a huge investment of time and energy and are rightly proud of their
>> achievement. That presents a problem for constructive discussion around
>> the journal, the last thing I want to do is be trollish and destructive.

You probably would look trollish and upset a few people, but this
can be good for sugar and/or education. If few people ever dare to
point out problems, we have useless groupthink.

I certainly point out problems, but you can't rely on me alone.
It's easy to dismiss one person as a grumpy old troll, but not
so easy to dismiss a variety of unrelated people pointing out
that something isn't right. The more fundamental/core/central
the issue, the more this applies.

>> For me, the workings behind the journal are hidden and there is a lack of
>> tools to make it do different things when the default operation is not
>> what you want. Also temporal and tagging is fine as a primary method of
>> storage but hierarchical storage is not offered as an alternate method.

Instead of trying to add hierarchical storage to the journal,
consider inverting the issue. Modern desktop systems often have
special ways to view particular directories. For example, Windows
does something special with the directory you use for MP3 files.
It also does something special for the font directory.

Suppose that one directory got a special view called "journal view".
This could be a "My Documents" or "Desktop" directory. Activities
throw stuff in there using the journal API. AFAIK, GNOME's Nautilus
just needs a plug-in to enable a journal view to work there.

>>>> The hiding of the file system was well intended, files and directories
>>>> are probably just a passing phase in computing and they cause some
>>>> confusion to beginners, but they are the system which underlies the
>>>> Journal and the way we interface with the www
>
> I agree that it would be helpful to have hierarchical views of the
> file system in Sugar, though I don't think they should be the default

Given that they are everywhere, it's an educational issue.
This isn't like the particulars of Microsoft Office 2007.
This is something pervasive throughout the world of computing.

> one because IMO a flat view like gmail with good filtering and search
> capabilities is more efficient for users that don't want to spend
> their energy in keeping their data in directories. I understand this
> opinion is very debatable, but it comes from my observation of how
> people around me use their computers and also from the feedback about
> Sugar from the field.

The most interesting feedback from the field was about the kids
teaching each other to wipe the journal with "rm".
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