I'd surely suggest that SoaS use Alt+touchpad. (Or on Windows keyboards, surely the Windows keys are also available.)
SoaS sorely needs a keyboard shortcut. Art Hunkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean DALY" <sdaly...@gmail.com> To: "Eben Eliason" <eben.elia...@gmail.com>; "Gary C Martin" <g...@garycmartin.com>; <sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Scrollbar width > I'm not sure, is there an equivalent for non-XO keyboards? > > A pity the scrollbar is so thin when there are so many pixels available. > > Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be useful to offer an optional > rollover bubble mode like on the old pre-OSX Macs, useful for > describing key combo equivalents in an unfamiliar interface... > > Sean > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Eben Eliason <eben.elia...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Sean DALY <sdaly...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> FWIW, I have seen lots of kids ages 6-8 who know what a scrollbar is, >>> but have a hard time mousing it up and down when using SoaS, even on a >>> larger screen such as the Dell Latitude 2100 education netbook. >> >> This, incidentally, is precisely the reason the grab key was designed. >> Scrolling in this manner requires continuous pressure on the mouse >> button, while simultaneously moving the finger across the trackpad, >> which can be difficult, especially on smaller laptops, and for >> smaller/younger fingers with less developed motor skills. >> >> The grab button (there, quite crucially, are two of these on the XO: >> one on each side of the spacebar) was designed to allow children to >> use their non-dominant hand to press the button while using their >> other hand on the trackpad to manipulate the view. This design was >> meant both to eliminate the need to "target" the scrollbar in the >> first place (since this would work anywhere within the scrolling >> region, just like 2-fingered scrolling), and to make it easier for >> children to do since drag'n'drop can be tricky. >> >> Eben >> >> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Gary C Martin <g...@garycmartin.com> >>> wrote: >>>> On 10 Dec 2009, at 14:58, Eben Eliason wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Paul Fox <p...@laptop.org> wrote: >>>>>> benjamin wrote: >>>>>> > Hello, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 22:43 -0500, Art Hunkins wrote: >>>>>> > > I've now got whole-screen scrollbars working well in my music >>>>>> activities, >>>>>> > > but I'd like to make the bars wider. The automatic settings (as >>>>>> used in most >>>>>> > > activities) are too narrow for my taste. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > First of all I would like to say: Please do not play with themes, >>>>>> just >>>>>> > because you don't like something that much ... (especially should >>>>>> you >>>>>> > dislike them in general and not only in your activity) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Other than that. IIRC the reason for the scrollbars to be that >>>>>> narrow >>>>>> > was the plan to use the Grab-Key+Touchpad for scrolling. This >>>>>> means that >>>>>> > the main purpose of the scorllbar is to show the position, but not >>>>>> to >>>>>> > use the handle itself for scrolling. >>>>>> >>>>>> and just in case it's not clear from the above -- the >>>>>> grab-key+touchpad >>>>>> feature is present in XO-1.5 releases, and available for the XO-1 if >>>>>> the >>>>>> olpc-kbdshim package is installed. >>>>> >>>>> I was a proponent for grab scrolling in the early days of Sugar at >>>>> OLPC. However, it seems clear now that, without customized hardware >>>>> (which was the assumption back then) this solution simply isn't viable >>>>> as an intuitive and discoverable way to navigate content. I think that >>>>> retaining the functionality via some other mapping or shortcut would >>>>> be nice (especially to offer the functionality as designed on the XO >>>>> hardware itself), but I don't see reason not to improve the usability >>>>> of Sugar on all platforms by increasing the scrollbars to a more >>>>> manageable width. >>>> >>>> I'd argue the narrow scrollbar width is still a relevant design choice, >>>> being there to indicate document length and current view location into >>>> it. Most non-XO hardware platforms are very likely to have their own >>>> hardware support for a scroll wheel type behaviour. I very rarely need >>>> to drag a scrollbar these days, it's all two fingered scrolling which >>>> works fine in Sugar on a VM (though we could do with a control panel to >>>> adjust sensitivity). >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> --Gary >>>> >>>>> Of course, in addition to this we should make sure that wherever >>>>> possible the scrollbars are given every last pixel up to the edge of >>>>> the screen, so that they become, effectively infinite in width (or >>>>> height, when horizontal), thus making them difficult to miss. >>>>> >>>>> Eben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> paul >>>>>> =--------------------- >>>>>> paul fox, p...@laptop.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
