Edward, I am interested in what you have about the various <key> click behavior on the basic XO.
And, I can validate your estimate about the year to learn from our pilot program last year. I can also say that it depends less upon prior experience with computers as it does with a willingness to explore and meet obstacles, at least the 5th graders with whom I've been working. Many times, students at this level with a certain amount of experience with computers don't/can't really generalize to a new system. Thanks again. Gerald On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Edward Cherlin <echer...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 19:14, Gerald Ardito <gma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Edward, > > > > This is very helpful. > > Thanks. > > My pleasure. I have lots more of this sort of thing in draft. Let me > know of any other such issues you have run into, and I can give you > what I have, or think about it further. There are numerous uses for > left-click, double-click, triple-click, click-and-drag, right click, > hover, and in some systems mouse gestures. I use a four-button > trackball, and my son uses a special game control mouse, but we don't > have to get into all of that with Sugar. ^_^ > > It will also be helpful, if you try my suggested process, to document > how long it takes for children in a given class to catch on to an > idea, and how long it takes for it to become automatic. I don't know > how we can instrument such a study, but I expect that someone here > will have an idea. I expect to see variations by age, by prior > computer experience (positive or negative), and by cultural and social > factors. > > BTW, nobody should suppose that this succession of ideas is finished > and perfect. No amount of sympathetic imagination can substitute for > classroom experience, any more than a battle plan can survive contact > with the enemy. I want to hear suggestions for improvement, and I want > to hear about other issues that arise. Alan Kay has said that it takes > about a year to polish a math or physics lesson, and I will be > surprised if it is very much shorter for each of the key issues in > Sugar. > > > Gerald > > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Edward Cherlin <echer...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Excellent post. We need lots more like it to give us real-world > >> information on children's learning issues. > >> > >> I am documenting these problems in [[The Undiscoverable]], and working > >> on a guide for teachers to introduce and reinforce whatever children > >> have trouble with. It has been on hold during my move from California > >> to Indiana, but I can resume work now. > >> > >> Have you tried giving explicit lessons on Start New and Resume as part > >> of larger lessons? Something like this, perhaps: > >> > >> Class, we worked on [activity, function] yesterday, and we wanted to > >> know how to [other function]. Let's see if we can discover how to do > >> that in [activity]. First, right-click on [activity name] and select > >> New to start a new session. Then click the [tab name] tab, and look > >> at the controls. Do any of them look as though they do what we want? > >> What happens when you try them?... > >> > >> At the end of the session, have students exit and give the session a > >> meaningful name related to the idea you were teaching. > >> > >> Later: > >> > >> Do you remember what we did with [new idea from yesterday]? [Responses > >> from class] Now go to your Journals and click the [name] session to > >> resume it. > >> > >> Do this as often as necessary in different activities until you are > >> sure that the students remember it. Let me know how this works. > >> > >> I used to do this as the very first lesson in teaching adults word > >> processing and text editing. > >> > >> 1. Start program. (Most apps give you an empty document by default. If > >> not, create one.) > >> 2. Save empty file in specified directory with any name. > >> 3. Type something. > >> 4. Save again. > >> 5. Close file, or create new document. > >> 6. Re-open file. > >> 7. Exit program. > >> 8. Find file, and click to resume. > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 03:09, Simon Schampijer <si...@schampijer.de> > >> wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > I have observed certain difficulties with the 'resume' and 'start a > new' > >> > activity concept. At the moment we have the following situation: > >> > > >> > *** Current Situation: > >> > In the Home View you can resume an activity and start a new one. The > >> > option to start a new activity is in the palette of the activity icon. > A > >> > list of last entries from this activity type is present in the palette > >> > as well. When you click on the icon with the left mouse button, the > last > >> > activity is resumed by default. Clicking with the right mouse button > on > >> > the icon does reveal the activity palette. The activity is revealed > >> > after a delay when hovering over the icon, too. Since version 0.86 > when > >> > you hold the alt-key pressed and click on the activity icon you can > >> > start a new activity. This is visually guided by the uncolored > activity > >> > icon. > >> > > >> > In the Journal you can resume activities. There is no option to start > a > >> > new activity from within the Journal. > >> > > >> > > >> > *** Background: > >> > I teach a Sugar class of 15 students (5th and 6th grade) in a German > >> > primary school [1]. The classes are on a weekly one hour basis. They > had > >> > 10-15 hours of Sugar by now. We use Sugar 0.84 on Fedora 11. I > explained > >> > the concept of the Journal, repeated several times how to start a new > >> > activity and how to resume one. I explained them that revealing of the > >> > palette is quicker when using the right mouse button. > >> > > >> > > >> > *** Disclaimer: > >> > The information below is not meant to be hard data. There are > >> > differences in backgrounds (cultural etc), ages and quite importantly: > a > >> > difference between a first time user, a regular user and a daily user. > >> > Some might as well question if I have chosen the right methodical way > to > >> > explain things, and be sure sometimes I do question myself, however > the > >> > data gathered might be a good basis for discussing this issue and > maybe > >> > others will provide some data, too. > >> > > >> > > >> > *** Observations: > >> > Most of the kids click on the activity icon when they want to start a > >> > new activity. Since there is a delay to reveal the palette, the > learner > >> > does not see the other information in the palette. > >> > > >> > When they resume a previous activity, and they wanted to start a new > >> > one, I have seen learners erasing the previous content and keep on > >> > working in that activity. > >> > > >> > Nearly all the kids do not use the right click to reveal the palette. > >> > They wait for it to appear. > >> > > >> > > >> > *** Survey: > >> > Last class I asked the learners in a small survey the following > >> > questions: > >> > > >> > A: How do you do a new drawing in TurtleArt? > >> > R: > >> > Some: Nothing, or did misunderstood the question. > >> > Some: I click on TurtleArt. > >> > One said: One clicks with the right mouse on TurtleArt and clicks with > >> > the left one on New. > >> > One said: Go on TurtleArt, wait, click New. > >> > > >> > A: How do you edit a previous drawing in TurtleArt? > >> > R: > >> > Many: Go to the Journal and resume there. > >> > One: Go to Journal or right click and choose the one one want to > resume. > >> > One: Go on TurtleArt and choose the name one wants to resume. > >> > Some: Nothing / did not understand the question > >> > > >> > A: Is there a difference between the right mouse click and the left > >> > mouse click? > >> > R: > >> > One: it is quicker to use the right mouse button. > >> > Some: you get a new field/list. > >> > Many: Nothing / did not understand the question > >> > > >> > > >> > *** Comments: > >> > The concept of using the Journal to resume a previous activity does > work > >> > very well for the kids. With adding the list of previous activities to > >> > the activity palette in the home view we added that concept to the > home > >> > view. The issue is, it is a secondary option. There is only one way in > >> > Sugar to start a new activity - to work from scratch. And this is a > >> > secondary option. > >> > > >> > For me it would be worth trying to test going back to create a new one > >> > by default, as I think this is what my learners somehow expected. > >> > > >> > Small additions to the activity palette could be helpful, too. Adding > >> > the journal date field to the entries. And having headers like in [2], > >> > though I think there was a technical issue with this. > >> > > >> > Another improvement could be to cut the delay, so the secondary > options > >> > are more prominent. Or, the left mouse click would reveal the palette > >> > and the learner then needs to decide what option to choose. This would > >> > clash with the rest of the UI I guess. > >> > > >> > I remember we had some design mockups quite some time ago, where a > >> > certain amount of Journal entries where displayed in the home view in > a > >> > horizontal time line. Maybe this would help to make the Journal more > >> > accessible from there. > >> > > >> > > >> > Congrats, if you made it reading that far. Comments, ideas, mockups, > >> > plans for more data I should provide etc welcome. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Simon > >> > > >> > > >> > [1] at the moment only in German: > >> > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Planetarium > >> > [2] > >> > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Activity_Management#6 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Sugar-devel mailing list > >> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin > >> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > >> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > >> http://www.earthtreasury.org/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sugar-devel mailing list > >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > > > -- > Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > http://www.earthtreasury.org/ >
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