On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote: > Hi, > > I think a comparison of the size of the Pootle files for 0.82 to 0.96 would > make this clear. One obvious source is the pop-up menus which are > ubiquitous. Open Browse and look at the portal - it is all text.
You have somewhat of a point as regards, for example Turtle Art, in that recent versions include help strings and more hover-enabled tooltips, both resulting in po file bloat. But this is not at the expense of adding more text to the basic interface. Still iconic in the main. regards. -walter > > Yours, > > Tony > > > > On 09/24/2012 11:55 AM, Gary Martin wrote: >> >> Hi Tony, >> >> On 24 Sep 2012, at 15:33, Tony Anderson<tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> An important concept is 'language of instruction'. For example, in Nepal >>> the language of instruction is Nepali; however, there are many native >>> languages other than Nepali. >>> >>> In Haiti, the language of instruction is French. This is different than >>> requiring a course in French. All of the textbooks are written in French. >>> >>> In Rwanda, until last year, the language of instruction was English. Now, >>> it is Kinyarwanda until grade 4, and then English. >>> >>> The implication is that we could concentrate on supporting the language >>> of instruction in the deployments: English, Spanish, and French. We should >>> also help deployments with support for initial literacy in the student's >>> mother tongue. >>> >>> One concern is that Sugar becomes more text-based with every release. >>> Open Browse for example. Use of icons was a very practical way to help >>> students learn to use the computer regardless of their mother tongue. >> >> >> Sugar becoming more text-based? Could you be a little more specific as to >> where in Sugar and Activities you're seeing this? >> >> From a design point of view I try very hard to keep with, and extend the >> icon focused Sugar designs e.g. the switch away from Activity toolbar tabs >> allowed us to make Activities much more icon driven. Just the other day I >> was working with humitos to provide him with a mockup for a simpler, more >> friendly page load error message (less text and a visual). >> >> Regards, >> --Gary >> >> [1] >> http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/attachment/ticket/3500/Browse_unable_to_load_page.png >> >>> yours, >>> >>> Tony >>> >>> On 09/24/2012 04:35 AM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> Send Sugar-devel mailing list submissions to >>>> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> sugar-devel-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Sugar-devel digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (Kevin Mark) >>>> 2. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (Kevin Mark) >>>> 3. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (James Cameron) >>>> 4. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn) >>>> 5. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (Kevin Mark) >>>> 6. Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 (Hal Murray) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 22:17:25 -0700 (PDT) >>>> From: Kevin Mark<kevin.m...@verizon.net> >>>> To: Flavio Danesse<fdane...@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org, James Cameron<qu...@laptop.org>, >>>> "S. Daniel Francis"<fran...@sugarlabs.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <1348463845.49692.yahoomailclas...@web84509.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> Hola Flavio, I think you gave many?excellent? reasons for using Spanish, >>>> which is what i was saying. So I agree. I was recalling something about the >>>> OLPC project in Haiti. ?They have 2 'officlal' languages: Kreyol and >>>> French. >>>> 99% of the country learns Kreyol but the upper class/government know >>>> French. >>>> So the kids learn French for some reason in their early years along with >>>> Kreyol and I was confused by this. Why learn something that they will use >>>> very little and confuse learning while trying to learn it in a little used >>>> language, French. That may not be 100% correct, so any correction welcome. >>>> So I understand the idea of having kids try to learn Python and English at >>>> the same time as being difficult and not always useful.-K >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> >>>> URL:<http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20120923/e9887e05/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 22:24:25 -0700 (PDT) >>>> From: Kevin Mark<kevin.m...@verizon.net> >>>> To: Flavio Danesse<fdane...@gmail.com>, Gonzalo Odiard >>>> <gonz...@laptop.org> >>>> Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org, James Cameron<qu...@laptop.org>, >>>> "S. Daniel Francis"<fran...@sugarlabs.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <1348464265.12572.yahoomailclas...@web84510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 9/24/12, Gonzalo Odiard<gonz...@laptop.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Gonzalo Odiard<gonz...@laptop.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 >>>> To: "Flavio Danesse"<fdane...@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: "Kevin Mark"<kevin.m...@verizon.net>, >>>> sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org, "James Cameron"<qu...@laptop.org>, "S. >>>> Daniel Francis"<fran...@sugarlabs.org> >>>> Date: Monday, September 24, 2012, 1:08 AM >>>> >>>> Flavio,Estoy de acuerdo que para ense?ar programaci?n, agregar la >>>> problem?tica de comprender otro idioma a la de comprender el lenguaje de >>>> programaci?n en si, no tiene demasiado sentido.Lo que si creo que tiene >>>> sentido, y esto tu y yo lo hemos hablado varias veces, pero como has dado >>>> tu >>>> punto de vista, voy a dar el mio, es que usemos un lenguaje comun para >>>> tratar de compartir esfuerzos y no multiplicar el trabajo. Imaginate lo que >>>> pasar?a si la gente de Nepal, de Rwanda, latino america, y ahora las islas >>>> Fiji, cada uno tuviera que hacer su reproductor de videos y audio, su >>>> actividad para sacar fotos, etc. >>>> El costo en esfuerzo y tiempo que se invierte es alt?simo. En la >>>> pr?ctica es mas alto del que podemos afrontar como comunidad, porque aun no >>>> hemos logrado todo lo que nos proponemos.Entonces, esta barbaro usar los >>>> lenguajes locales para ense?ar y aprender, algunos miembros de esas >>>> comunidades y algunos proyectos creceran hasta poder compartirse y alli es >>>> mejor contar con un idioma comun. Hoy es el ingles, en cien a?os, veremos. >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> I agree with you when you say, to teach programming, add the need to >>>> learn a foreign language to the fact of learning the programming language, >>>> does not have too much sense. >>>> But have sense (and we talked about this a few times, but you have your >>>> point, and I have my point too) use a common language to share efforts and >>>> avoid multiply the job. Imagine if people from Nepal, Rwanda, Latin >>>> America, >>>> and now Fiji, need create his own video player, record activity, etc.? >>>> The cost in time and effort is too high. In fact, is higher than the >>>> effort we can do as a community, because we haven't reach all what we >>>> want.Then, is ok use local?language to teach and learn, some of the >>>> community members and some projects will grow up until be shared and then >>>> is >>>> better use a common language. Today is english, in 100 years, will see. >>>> ???Gonzalo >>>> >>>> I think a certain?comparison?comes to mind from learning about >>>> Debian-edu/OLPC. There are tools you use to learn learing and learn skills >>>> and tools you use to do work. To learn programming, you should use what is >>>> easiest and useful to do it (like python and Spanish comments), but when >>>> you >>>> are going to?collaborate?with many non-English people, then you turn to the >>>> common language, English. >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> >>>> URL:<http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20120923/7c16c6e9/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:40:13 +1000 >>>> From: James Cameron<qu...@laptop.org> >>>> To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18 >>>> Message-ID:<20120924054013.gn23...@us.netrek.org> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 02:08:03AM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree with you when you say, to teach programming, add the need to >>>>> learn a foreign language to the fact of learning the programming >>>>> language, does not have too much sense. >>>> >>>> >>>> I couldn't read what Flavio said, but I agree that having to learn a >>>> foreign language before learning programming does increase the cost of >>>> learning considerably, to the point that the learning may not occur. >>>> >>>> This is one of the reasons why some learning areas are difficult. But >>>> knowledge of the implementation language can assist greatly. >>>> >>>> Know Latin, can learn medicine terminology more quickly. >>>> >>>> Know Italian, can learn opera or music terminology more quickly. >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> >> . >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel