On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron <qu...@laptop.org
<mailto:qu...@laptop.org>> wrote:
Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
achieve all that. It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org
<http://git.sugarlabs.org>. Which still hasn't happened
because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.
I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.
FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points
out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2)
GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be
discovered by potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool
which requires minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter
really amounts to too much.
Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything
we are doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual
contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership
but rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance.
In some sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the
Fructose vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core developers
are saying: "These activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for
everything else."
That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the
pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any
input from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more
input to help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users
(whether they know it or not). @Tony Anderson
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net> would be great if you could rework you
thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.
regards.
-walter
In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
with contributors.
I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list. That
doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
necessarily spend as much time with the others.
On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
activities,
> this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the
move of the
> activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in
which individuals
> develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no
abandoned or orphaned
> activities in a community support model.
>
> It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two
factors which made
> that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar
software support such
> as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities
necessary and,
> second, that many of the original contributors are no longer
involved with
> Sugar.
>
> GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community
would support
> Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice
support for
> activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of
ones selected
> for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
>
> The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via
ASLO.
> Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub
which have not
> been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There
is even
> confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that
developers can use
> any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on
gitHub. Any
> changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until
they are submitted
> as a new version.
>
> Educational intent
>
> What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy
of Sugar.
> Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code
working,
> submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the
software tools
> needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
containers, or
> virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
demonstrate
> their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon
in the Home
> View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve
Sugar. There
> are plenty available:
>
> Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of
switching to
> gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it
a title, you
> must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
> The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a
background picture.
> Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
> Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly
as a service
> of Browse).
> Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the
lack of sound
> in Block Party).
> Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.
>
> Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program
in Python. They
> can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'. Start with the
Hello World
> activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes
for many
> common coding situations. Stop hiding the Terminal and Log
activities - try to
> encourage them to become favorites. Soon we could see a new
generation of
> user-programmers as we did in Uruguay.
>
> Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots
as a way to
> make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to
connect such a
> device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to
transfer a program
> written on an XO to the device and execute it with the user
seeing the results
> on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).
>
> Tony
>
> On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
> I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one
on as I think
> it is of real value.
>
> -walter
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron
<[1]qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>> wrote:
>
> Thanks. So the list looks like;
>
> # Walter Bender
>
> * Music Blocks,
> * Turtle Blocks JS,
>
> # Rahul Bothra
>
> * CowBulls,
> * Flappy,
> * Cedit,
> * Polari,
>
> # James Cameron
>
> * Abacus,
> * Browse (master),
> * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
> * Calculator,
> * Chart,
> * Chat,
> * Clock,
> * Develop,
> * Distance,
> * Finance,
> * Find Words,
> * Fototoon,
> * Fraction Bounce,
> * Gears,
> * GetBooks,
> * Help,
> * ImageViewer,
> * Implode,
> * Jukebox,
> * Labyrinth,
> * Letters,
> * Log,
> * Maze,
> * Measure,
> * Memorize,
> * Moon (master),
> * Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
> * MusicKeyboard (master),
> * MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
> * Paint,
> * Physics,
> * Pippy,
> * Poll,
> * Portfolio,
> * Read (master),
> * Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
> * Record (master),
> * Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
> * SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
> * Speak,
> * StopWatch,
> * Story,
> * Terminal,
> * TurtleBlocks,
> * Words,
> * Write,
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender
wrote:
> > I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle
Blocks JS.
> > I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond
that of late. That
> said, I
> > am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I
used to
> maintain.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra <[1][2]
> rrbot...@gmail.com <mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > *
> > I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
> >
> > I can take up cedit and Polari
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron <[2][3]
> qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Once we had a list of abandoned activities,
where the
> maintainer is
> > missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
> >
> > Now, I propose the inverse; a list of
activities with a
> maintainer
> > testing and releasing. It will be easier to
maintain that
> list.
> >
> > For myself, each of the Fructose activities,
each of the
> activities we
> > ship on OLPC OS. I know Walter is looking
after Music
> Blocks. Lionel
> > is looking after Sugarizer. Are there any
other developers
> who are
> > maintainers?
> >
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > [3][4]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [4][5]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> >
[5][6]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [6][7]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [7][8]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > --
> > Walter Bender
> > Sugar Labs
> > [8][9]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> > [9]
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:[10]rrbot...@gmail.com
<mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com>
> > [2] mailto:[11]qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
> > [3] [12]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > [4] mailto:[13]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [5] [14]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [6] mailto:[15]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [7] [16]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [8] [17]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [9] [18]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>
> --
> James Cameron
> [19]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> [20]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [21]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> [22]http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> [23]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [24]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
> References:
>
> [1] mailto:qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
> [2] mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com <mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com>
> [3] mailto:qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
> [4] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> [5] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [6] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [7] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [9] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> [10] mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com <mailto:rrbot...@gmail.com>
> [11] mailto:qu...@laptop.org <mailto:qu...@laptop.org>
> [12] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> [13] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [14] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [15] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [16] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [17] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> [18] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> [19] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> [20] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [21] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [22] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> [23] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> [24] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
--
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>
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--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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