On Mar 10, 2007, at 12:35 , Don Hopkins wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Hi Guido,
I still think your choice of words was inappropriate.
What's inappropriate about "Thanks Alan. I'm quite satisfied with
this response and I agree with the priorities!"?
Guido's original posting was not cited below. I won't repeat it, it's
in the archives, but it involved the word "anathema", hence my response.
I totally agree with Guido, and applaud Alan for his response and
priorities!
If anything is an anathema, then it's the huge body of
impenetrable C code in linux, the libraries, X11, gecko, gtk,
cairo, and, yes, underlying Python, too, and even Squeak, though
to a much lesser extent.
Just because something sucks isn't a reason not to use it if there
is currently no better alternative. Can you suggest or implement
better alternatives to any of those modules?
Sure. In fact, VPRI is working on it:
http://vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm
If not, then let's keep using them until we have enough time and
experience to replace them, so we can learn from their strengths
and weaknesses.
Of course, that's what we are doing right now - take the best of what
we've got already and get that to the kids.
It would be unwise to attempt to reinvent the wheel without ever
using one.
Indeed. However, as Alan likes to point out, a lot of effort nowadays
goes into attempting to reinvent flat tires.
This prevents opening the hood, seeing how things work, modifying
it, constructing new things etc. *This* is against the OLPC
philosophy, which explicitly encourages constructionist learning.
We are actively engaged in the process of constructionist learning
ourselves, by building things with these these flawed but useful
tools. Constructionism is not just for kids! Software developers
learn that way too.
Hey, you tell me ;)
Sadly, there isn't anything comparable to Etoys in the whole open
source world. Actually, strike that last five words. It's not like
most of it couldn't be done in Python, but for whatever reason,
nobody does it. I'd be happy to hear otherwise, but so far, the
Python community (or anybody else for that matter) to me does not
exactly appear enthusiastic about creating something that could
replace Etoys.
- Bert -
I am quite excited about creating something in Python that is based
on the ideas from great systems like Etoys, HyperCard, HyperLook,
Robot Odyssey, Body Electric / Bounce, and other visual programming
languages.
Of course, Etoys isn't just about visual programming. It's not even
about programming per se. It's about an integrated system that allows
seamless experimenting with all sorts of media:
http://squeakland.org/pdf/etoys_n_learning.pdf
Now that the open source status of SimCity is out of the closet,
please take a look at my previous posting with the idea of re-
implementing SimCity on top of such a system:
Ideas for Sugar development environment from HyperLook SimCity
http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-December/001022.html
SJ Klein and I recently talked with Charles Normal of Electronic
Arts about making SimCity and other games open source for the OLPC,
and he asked us to make a list of games that we would like EA to
make open source so we can port to the OLPC.
Which games and other software should we ask EA and other
publishers to make open source and contribute to the OLPC project?
One at the top of my list is "Klik-and-Play", Maxis's visual game
programming language for kids.
One at the top of my list is Fritz, the leading chess engine by
Chessbase. I read an interview with their chairman where he expressed
his genuine interest at bringing chess to kids.
Of course it might just be more powerful and efficient to re-
implement something like Klik-and-Play from scratch in Python, as a
plug-in visual scripting component, which can be used to script a
HyperCard-like gui environment, and games built on top of it like
SimCity and Robot Odyssey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik_&_Play
I also would love to make a massively multi-player version of
SimAnt: One Ant Per Child!
Cool :) Not multi-player, but have you seen the massively parallel
particle simulations (Kedama) in Etoys?
- Bert -
_______________________________________________
Sugar mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.laptop.org/mailman/listinfo/sugar
