less is more I went to university with an East German lad who could write C, Assembly Code as well as he could eat sausages, without comments, perhaps you need a few more people on this project of East European origin? I would not have my degree without him!!
On 02/08/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Send Sugar mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Sugar digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Docs? (Walter Bender) > 2. Submitting patches (Marco Pesenti Gritti) > 3. sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5 (Keith R. Fieldhouse) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:52:50 -0400 > From: "Walter Bender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? > To: "Ryan Pavlik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Eben Eliason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Sugar Mailing List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > One thing we have been lagging behind on is documentation for > developers: APIs, etc. Eben has done a nice job on the UI guidelines, > but there more help we can and should provide to those who want to dig > into the code itself--something we are encouraging the children and > teachers to do. > > -walter > > On 8/1/07, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We're not ignorant of the need for some amount of explanation about > various > > aspects of the UI and also some activities. For the most part, we do > feel > > that the interfaces will offer an immediately usable or at least quickly > > discoverable experience for most, and this has been true in some early > > trials with much earlier (and buggier) versions of the software. > > Nonetheless, we wouldn't presume that it will be "obvious" to all. For > that > > matter, some of the advanced functionality that provides the high > ceiling in > > our "low floor, high ceiling" model may actually be less discoverable in > > favor of a simpler up front experience, and in those cases documentation > can > > be a valuable thing. > > > > In any event, this project is about both education and community. These > two > > items should re-factor the way we think about help. Yes, we'll provide > some > > basic documentation; yes, activity developers will do the same. But in > the > > long run, it's much more consistent with our goals for the project to > create > > an ever growing community around the laptops and their activities, where > > children, teachers, and developers alike can post tips, suggestions, > formal > > documentation, images, video, experiences, and tutorials about both > software > > and hardware. In this way, we can leverage the power of the communities > and > > the children themselves, who are eager to explore and learn, and can > learn > > how to help each other through the process. By handing out some > > responsibility, the localization problem can be solved > naturally. Having an > > evolving system for help also makes a lot of sense when the software is > both > > young and continually changing. > > > > > > We're not neglecting help on principle; we're adjusting our view of the > help > > model in light of the project's mission and goals. > > > > - Eben > > > > > > On 8/1/07, Ryan Pavlik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am not coming up with these ideas, just relaying them. If you wish > > > for comment by the entire community, including those who know more > about > > > it than me, use the "Reply to All" feature of your mail client rather > > > than sending private replies - I am rather unqualified to answer most > of > > > your questions. > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Dear Ryan, > > > > > > > > I don't doubt the solid pedagogical underpinnings of the OLPC, and > > > > fully endorse the principles. As the 25th employee at Xerox PARC I > > > > have more than a passing interest in user interfaces, and I applaud > > > > Sugar's innovative approach (and talk about it in many of my > > > > presentations). That said, my experience using technology with kids > > > > since the 1970's has revealed different levels of "obviousness," and > > > > this is reflected in the many spirited discussions on this list. > > > > Pardon me if it appears that the idea of "obviating the need for > > > > documentation" is slightly hubristic. There will be some > (especially > > > > among the adult decision-making community) who will benefit from > some > > > > documentation. Are you suggesting that (for example) eToys needs no > > > > documentation? If so how do you explain that the first Smalltalk > > > > documentation consisted of TWO hardbound books published by > > > > Addison-Welsey. > > > > > > > > I am a huge fan of having kids jump into the deep end of new > > > > projects. I also have found that helpful resources are quite > valuable. > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > David Thornburg, PhD > > > > Director, Global Operations > > > > Thornburg Center > > > > Chicago, USA | Recife, Brasil > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ryan Pavlik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sugar Mailing List < [email protected]> > > > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:57 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? > > > > > > > > By self-documenting I mean that the interface obviates the need for > > > > documentation, not that it produces written documentation. You might > > > > be interested to look at http://wiki.laptop.org - it is as much > > > > (more!) an education project as a laptop project, and the > educational > > > > theory behind the decision decisions is pretty interesting. > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > If the OLPC is self-documenting, who is handling this, how much > > > > memory > does it take, and what does the interface look like? It > seems > > > > that > this would have come up in conversations by now. > > > > > > > > > > Just asking. > > > > > > > > > > David Thornburg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Ryan Pavlik <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > > > To: Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > > Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 7:35 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? > > > > > > > > > > I am certainly not an OLPC rep, but what I have seen suggests that > > > > the > > > > > > intent is for the machines to be self-instructing and not > requiring > > > > > > documentation. In addition to the massive translation demands that > > > > > > > would require, it also does not coincide with the educational > > > > > > theories/practices that the organization is pursuing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if you want to make developer documentation, then I > think > > > > > > anyone's answer would be, dive in! :) Just ask which regions are > > > > stable > > > > > > first so your work doesn't get obsoleted quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Is there any plan for official software documentation? I have > been > > > > a > > > > > > > Senior Tech Writer for the last 10 years and would be delighted > to > > > > > > > work on it (particularly if someone like Red Hat would support > me > > > > to > > > > > > > do it 60 hours a week *<{%-{]}}} <--Goggle-eyed geek in clown > hat, > > > > > > > moustache, and full beard). Actually, I have been writing about > XO > > > > > > > software off and on ever since the Dynabook days, when Xerox > > > > licensed > > > > > > > Smalltalk to Apple, HP, and others in 1981, during my market > > > > research > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, I wrote in a study of so-called educational > software > > > > back > > > > > > > then that the overpriced drill-and-practice programs of the time > > > > > > > > weren't real educational software, and that what children need > is > > > > > > > sharp tools to do stuff with. Commercial educational software is > > > > still > > > > > > > a vast wasteland, with a few honorable exceptions. Then I did a > > > > study > > > > > > > on Personal Instruments (data acquisition and analysis on PCs), > and > > > > > > > > > some other reports that touched on education. Besides starting > and > > > > > > > managing a software project for math for schools. And a few > other > > > > things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a button that says, "Stop me before I volunteer again," > but > > > > it > > > > > > > doesn't help. [sigh] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Edward Cherlin > > > > > > > > > > > Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit > > > > > > > > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Earth_Treasury > > > > > > > > > > > WIRE AFRICA http//www.wireafrica.org/ < > http://www.wireafrica.org/> > > > > <http://www.wireafrica.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/cherlin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > Sugar mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Ryan Pavlik > > > > > > > > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com > > > > <http://www.abisource.com> <http://www.abisource.com> > > > > > > > > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: > > > > www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ > > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com /oss/abi/blog/> > > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." > > > > > > > > > > -- Helen Keller > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as > Ubuntu > > > > > > > > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were > > > > > > > > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." > > > > > > > > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > > > > > > > > > Sugar mailing list > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > > > > free > from AOL at *AOL.com* > > > > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437>. > > > > > > > > -- Ryan Pavlik > > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com > > > > <http://www.abisource.com> > > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: > > > > www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ > > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/> > > > > > > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." > > > > -- Helen Keller > > > > > > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu > > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were > > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." > > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free > > > > from AOL at * AOL.com* <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437 > >. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ryan Pavlik > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: > www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ > > > > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." > > > -- Helen Keller > > > > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sugar mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > One Laptop per Child > http://laptop.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:43:56 +0200 > From: "Marco Pesenti Gritti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [sugar] Submitting patches > To: "Sugar List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Please follow the process outlined in this wiki page when submitting > patches for Sugar. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Patches > > Thanks, > Marco > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:33:27 -0400 > From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [sugar] sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hello, > > After a month or two hiatus, I wanted to refresh my sugar-jhbuild > environment, starting with a fresh git-clone. > > My development environment is a Fedora Core 6 system. > > I find now that sugar-jhbuild says that Python 2.5 is a dependency when > I attempt a "sugar-jhbuild build". > > What is the best way to resolve this? > > 1. Build my own Python 2.5 and make sure it's visible to sugar-jhbuild? > 2. Upgrade to Fedora Core 7 (fairly easy since this is all virtualized > for me) > 3. Convince sugar-jhbuild to build a python 2.5 for me (though > meta-sugar-base seems to be gone?) > > I'm most interested in understanding the mainstream/expected answer that > will make it easiest to track the sugar-jhbuild environment in the future. > > Thanks, > > Keith Fieldhouse > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > End of Sugar Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7 > ************************************ > -- Cameron Barnett +33 (0)6 10 16 30 34 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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