NachrichtHello Roger, I have been reading the exchange of postings on this discussion, and I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Roger.
Many of us have numerous digital clocks around us (on our wrists, walls at home or in the office, on our computers, in our cars, etc.) Even the cheapest is far more accurate than any sundial except perhaps a few rarities. But we are still interested / fascinated by ancient and mediaeval solutions of three-dimensional geometry that relates the sun's position to time. Many of us cheerfully accept the challenge of calculating and then making dials of new materials or new designs. Some are successful, and incorporate great aesthetic values, others less so. But to assume that all dials must mimic or mirror old designs is to ignore the changes in other technology and civilisation that have happened since the first dials were calculated. What is wrong with incorporating the best of ancient dials with the best of modern technology? I'm sure that any of the classic makers would have used modern methods and materials had they been available. Why would I hand-beat a lump of latten to make brass sheet when I can buy it at the local engineering supply store? Who wants to hand-divide a circle when you can do the job far quicker, and probably more accurately with a $400 rotary table (made in Taiwan) set up on a $1500 milling machine (also made in Taiwan). Although I can use the tools and machines in my workshop, early dials literally take my breath away with my admiration for the skill of the craftsmen who made them. Let's see more dials in public places to remind us of where we have come from. Yes, some of the designs are almost frighteningly stark in their minimalism, but why not? Aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder, and we need not be slaves to tradition for its own sake. That is sterile and a dead-end for development. I know that dials have been dead technology for over a century, but so what? It's obvious that people are still developing new variations. Reading postings over the last couple of years, the number of "new" dials surprises me. And the designs are wonderful. I, for one, am glad that dial does not automatically mean "horizontal", and that diallers devote (or as others would say "waste") their intellect and skills on something that doesn't address any problem facing humanity. Let's see dials for public places being made in modern materials as well as incorporating traditional materials and concepts. The diversity of sundials is one of their great attractions. Modern dials are simply continuing this tradition. Long may it be so! And long may we have this wonderful sundial list where we can mull over these issues. Cheers, John John Pickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Bailey To: Reinhold Kriegler ; 'Josef Pastor' ; 'Sonnenuhr (Uni Köln)' Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:12 AM Subject: Re: Dump Horizon Observatory - Construction in progress Hi Reinhold, It is now my turn to disagree with your comments. Horizon astronomy is important. Civilization began when people observed celestial events at the horizon: rising and setting phenomenon, heliacal risings, solstice determinations etc.The first measured and recorded information on our place in the universe came from such observations of celestial bodies with reference to the horizon. Only at the horizon could the solstices be measured and the cycle of the seasons understood in pre-historic times. Many archeoastronomy studies have confirmed the importance of horizon astronomy. Stonehenge, standing stones and circles, medicine wheels, Mayan towers etc all had astronomical purposes. Have a look at my website for presentations on this topic. 1. http://www.walkingshadow.info/WinterSolstice.ppt 2. http://www.walkingshadow.info/Publications/Archeoastronomy.pdf 3. http://www.walkingshadow.info/Publications/Armillary%20Spheres.pdf The next major step in astronomy was tracking celestial objects above the horizon. Here the Greek concept of the celestial sphere has served us well. This concept describes the observed universe. Early sundials where based on tracking the sun with a shadow in a bowl, a reversed image of the celestial sphere. Patient observations of shadows on a simple equatorial disc led to the determination of the length of the year and by Hipparchus about 250 BC. He was able to calculate the difference the solar and stellar years due to precession. The simplified celestial sphere is represented with the armillary sphere and the astrolabe. These became useful teaching devices for astronomers and navigators. The armillary sphere was important enough for the Portuguese to incorporate it as their national symbol. This is shown on their flag, their (pre-Euro) money, and Manualene architecture. The dump Observatory, featuring horizon astronomy and rings of an armillary sphere, is very relevant today to link with our past. The fact that it is big and bold adds to the WOW factor so important in communication and education these days. I respect your opinion but mine is different. Regards, Roger Bailey ----- Original Message ----- From: Reinhold Kriegler To: 'Josef Pastor' ; 'Sonnenuhr (Uni Köln)' Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:06 AM Subject: AW: Dump Horizon Observatory - Construction in progress Dear Joseph Pastor, I am sorry, but I have to pour some water into your wine and give a comment. If I look at the images of these architect's "dreams" in your indicated links. . Is this the spirit of our time? Cold, empty, the uncomfortable smell of calculations-Maths, sundials reduced to a series of formulas. No spirit, a giant blow-up of NOTHING! A mentally empty space around these constructions with no inspiration of the location! It remains what it is: A ruined ground. How many fading away precious old sundials on churches could be saved for the next 100 years, how many sundials of reasonable human size placed in the villages and towns, on school grounds, how many good sundial books could be supported with the money which is wasted here! They are so proud about these works! This is what makes me even sadder. These strange steel-constructions could stand in any ruined place of the brave new world. I feel so sorry and sad and ashamed what is happening in Germany in this field! Best regards! Reinhold Kriegler * ** *** **** ***** ****** ******* Reinhold R. Kriegler Lat. 53° 6' 52,6" Nord; Long. 8° 53' 52,3 Ost; 48 m ü. N.N. www.ta-dip.de http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XyCoJHwzzjU -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Josef Pastor Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Juni 2008 01:51 An: 'Sonnenuhr (Uni Köln)' Betreff: Dump Horizon Observatory - Construction in progress Dear Dialists, I reported several times to this list on the Horizon Observatory to be planned on top of the Hoheward coal mine dump near Recklinghausen in the Ruhr industry district. Plans are coming true sometimes. The construction work is actually in progress.The inauguration is scheduled for September 2008. Have a look at the construction site here on the local newspaer-homepage: http://www.recklinghaeuser-zeitung.de/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=556 By the way on picture 29 you have a view on the Obelisk SD (animation http://www.geoastro.de/obelisk/), which has been finished last year, from them construction site of the observatory. For more detailed background knowledge consult the Recklinghausen Observatory: http://www.sternwarte-recklinghausen.de/horizontastronomie.html or http://www.horizontastronomie.de/ (also in English) Best regards Josef Pastor No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 03.06.2008 07:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1481 - Release Date: 03/06/2008 7:31 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
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