I think Gian is right: as the author of "SONNE" I agree with Gian that all feedback about the programs offered is very helpful. Also different opinions are helpful for the programmer.
For me consensus in the dialist's nomenclauture seems impossible. We use many definitions which are common not only in dialling but also in astronomy. We cannot change that. Therefore many of us use that version which is common in the own country or continent. So help files and/or an improved way of data input seems to be the best. Greetings Helmut http://web.utanet.at/sondereh ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "jlcarmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Sundial list Sundial list" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Vertical declining sundial help Well, maybe it would not be enough, but some agreement in the sundial community (between both software makers and dialists) on nomenclatures etc. could help in creating a "de facto" standard. I agree with John, we absolutely don't need a war between programmers, however I think that some more feedback on what a program does would be useful, I'm sure that there are several aspects that could be enhanced and that the programmer cannot see because he is the author. It's not a question of criticizing any programs, just a way to improve them. Greetings. Gian ---------- Initial Header ----------- >From : "John Carmichael" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : "Ricardo Cernic" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc : "sun.dials" [EMAIL PROTECTED],"yan" [EMAIL PROTECTED],"sundial" [email protected] Date : Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:03:09 -0700 Subject : RE: Vertical declining sundial help > I agree with you Ricardo that a consensus among programmers would be nice. > But it's just not the programs that are different. In sundial literature > you see different nomenclatures as well. Models are fine if you are > designing a dial for your local location where you can test it. But if you > are designing a dial that's for somewhere else, then a model isn't very > helpful, unless you ship the model to where it's going and test it there. > That's another reason why I like to use two or more sundial programs to > double check the drawings against each other, especially if actual testing > is not possible. > > But I don't want to criticize any particular program, because I love them > all for different reasons, and we are all deeply indebted to their makers > for sharing them with us. Besides, we don't want to start a war between the > programmers! But it's something to think about, for sure. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ricardo Cernic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:39 PM > To: jlcarmichael > Cc: sun.dials; yan; sundial > Subject: RE: Vertical declining sundial help > > Yan, > > John raised a very good point. I've tested most of the programs mentioned > (btw, all of them are very good) and you must be very careful about the > tricks behind the nomenclatures. What I usually do is to build a small scale > sundial using cardboard and test it to make sure I've input the parameters > correctly according to the definitions used by a certain program. This > approach save a lot off time, money and avoid frustrations. > > John, > > If I'm not wrong most of the authors of the programs mentioned are members > of this list and/or some one in the list know them. So, extending your > point: why this community does not discuss the best nomenclature to be used? > After a consensus is reached the authors could decide to change or not their > programs. Also,wWhy not to use a kind of certification like NASS/BSS/etc > nomenclature compliant? In the software industry there are different kinds > of certification (Linux, Windows Vista, Mac, etc.). > > BR, > Ricardo Cernic > São Paulo, Brazil > > ---------- Início da mensagem original ----------- > > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] > Cc: > Data: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:20:08 -0700 > Assunto: RE: Vertical declining sundial help > > > p.s. > > > > A word of warning about using any of these sundial design programs- > > > > These sundial programs ask you to input the characteristics of the sundial > you want. > > > > But they all use different nomenclature and definitions for longitude and > wall declination inputs. Some of them use negative values (-) for West > longitudes, and other use positive values (+) for West longitudes. So be > careful when you enter longitude and wall declination values that you use > the correct sign. When I use design a sundial I always use at least two > sundial programs so that I can catch any input errors. I compare both > drawings to make sure they are identical. Often I catch major errors because > I got confused and did not enter the correct longitude value sign or the > wall declination value sign. > > > > To avoid these serious errors, read the "Help" or "Definition" tabs to > find out the correct value definition for each program. > > > > It's unfortunate that the dialing community does not have uniform > definitions for longitude and wall declination. It makes it confusing for > beginners and even experienced dialists. It definitely makes communication > among dialists more confusing and error prone. And it makes these programs > dangerous in the hands of beginners. I bet a lot of people have entered the > wrong values in these programs and have made sundials that don't work and > they wonder why. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > (educational) Sundial Cupolas, Towers & Turrets: > http://StainedGlassSundials.com/CupolaSundial/index.html > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:29 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] > > Subject: R: Vertical declining sundial help > > > > Why don't you try with my "Orologi Solari" program ? > > It can manage several types of dials including vertical declining ones, > and > > it can design a day line for a specific day. > > It includes a large help file. > > User interface and help file are in English as well as in Italian and > Czech. > > It can be freely downloade from my web pages : http://digilander.libero. > > it/orologi.solari > > Try and let me know ! > > Gian Casalegno > > > > > > >----Messaggio originale---- > > >Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Data: 26/07/2008 15.46 > > >A: <[email protected]> > > >Ogg: Vertical declining sundial help > > > > > >I've been interested in sundials for a long time but I've never built > > >one. As an engineer by trade, I have some understanding of the math, but > > >never actually having used the equations for a real project my > > >understanding hasn't been tested. :-) > > > > > >We recently bought a house that has a perfect location for a vertical > > >declining sundial. The wall faces almost directly south - it is 17 deg. > > >off with a bearing of N73W - and faces a school. > > > > > >So I'd like to set up the sundial with the summer vacation marked. I > > >can't find any information on how to calculate the position for a > > >specific date on a vertical declining sundial. > > > > > >I'm at 44°03´07´´N 123°05´12´´W > > ><http://stable.toolserver.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Eugene% > > 2C_Oregon¶ms=44_03_07_N_123_05_12_W_type:city>. > > > > > >I would appreciate any help getting started. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >--Yan > > > > > >-- > > > o__ > > > ,>/'_ o__ > > > (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__ > > >Yan Seiner (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__ > > > Personal Trainer (_)\(_) ,>/'_ o__ > > > Professional Engineer (_)\(_) ,>/'_ > > >Who says engineers have to be pencil necked geeks? (_)\(_) > > > > > >"I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's > too > > young to have logged on yet. Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or > 15 > > years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where were you when > they > > took freedom of the press away from the Internet?'" > > >--Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > > >https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --------------------------------------------------- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
