Hi John C,
That's a nice dial but it doesn't answer the question which I asked: the earliest x-y plot of EoT vs date to appear on a sundial (i.e. the familiar 4-peaked graph).
Re early analemmas (a different thing), Chris Daniel's monograph shows an earliest drawing for a horizontal meridian with analemma as by Deparcieux (1741) and for a vertical one in 1757. But Vogler's mean time equinoctial dial of 1719 in the NMM is earlier.
Regards,
John
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Dr J Davis
Flowton Dials
--- On Sun, 15/11/09, John Carmichael <jlcarmich...@comcast.net> wrote:
From: John Carmichael <jlcarmich...@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Analemma origins.
To: "'JOHN DAVIS'" <john.davi...@btopenworld.com>
Cc: "'sundial'" <sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de>
Date: Sunday, 15 November, 2009, 18:40
You said:
<)? I haven't been able to find one prior to 1900 though I feel there must be one somewhere.
Take a look at this wonderful old etched glass dial made in 1788 at The Royal Castle in Warsaw Poland
Stained Glass Sundial website at: http://www.advanceassociates.com/Sundials/Stained_Glass/sundials_EGP.html
Look closely at the high definition original photos at the bottom and you will see the finely etched figure-of-eight analemma! This is the oldest one I know of.
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Dial 147
The King Poniatowski Dial |
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Maker: Made by Jean François Richer, an artist, French astronomer and Instrument maker for the king, Stanislas Augustus Poniatowski.
Date: 1788
Original Location: Lat: 52° 14' 50.425" N, Lon: 21° 0' 52.87" E. In The Royal Castle in Warsaw Poland. Behrendt's reverse engineering calculates its design latitude as 52.1° N. which corresponds with the location of Warsaw.
Present Location: Lat: 52° 9' 53.124" N, Lon: 21° 5' 25.092" E. It’s mounted in a wooden box held by a window frame on the south side of The Wilanów Palace in Warsaw Poland. There is an outer pane of dirty glass in front of it. This is why it seems to be so
unclean in the photos.
Orientation: Its original and current location have a vertical inclination. Hans Behrendt's reverse engineering calculated its original declination was 14° east of south. Its present declination is south. So it would not function if its gnomon were reattached.
Size: unknown exactly- about 2 m (79 in) tall.
Adornment: The finely divided dial shows a sun calendar with the hours of VI o'clock am to V o'clock pm on the edges. Has 15 minute time divisions. For the first time on an historical glass sundial, the figure-of-eight analemma appears, indicating the deviation of true noon at the different seasons. Has the King's crown with the Polish and Lithuanian coat of arms, and in the centre is the coat of arms of the Poniatowski family. Further up, is the
inscription: "Richer brevelé du roi en 1788". Patron was the Polish king.
Mottos: the admonishing motto "Ultima Time" (Fear the Latest). The word "hour" is understood to be added.
Condition: Good in 2009. Gnomon is still missing, however there is an picture of it. Darek Oczki trying to get it for us. At the end of the zodiacal hyperbola, the symbols are quite faint.
Comments: All information here was provided by German dialist, Hans Behrendt and polish dialist, Dariusz Oczki. This is a valuable and historic sundial and is the second oldest etched glass sundial that we know of. Hans Behrendt said in his 1989 videotape: "Notice how the inscription is to be read inversely. Probably the pane was negligently inserted wrongly during a restoration." You can see this installation error in his old video photo ‘q’. The
dial has since been reversed. Note that The Wilanów Palace also is home to the famous and most beautiful “Chronos Painted Wall Sundial” which you can see almost hidden behind the scaffolding in photos ‘o’ and ‘p’. You can see it more clearly and read about it at The Painted Wall Sundial Website at: Dial 31.
Videotape Transcript of Dial 147 only: Here
Dariusz Oczki’s Email: Here
Photo Descriptions: Darek Oczki took photos ‘a’ to ‘p’ in 2009 and kindly sent them to us. He says: “It is very hard to take good photos because
glass is very light there. There are some pics taken by a professional photographer, but I am not allowed to use them. He did something to make the sundial look dark with almost white markings. Unfortunately the palace is now being renovated so glass behind the sundial is covered with thousands of little and big stains of paint. As a computer graphic I have enhanced my pics a bit, so now one can see all the details even if they were taken during the day (It was very light outside so you would not see almost nothing on the sundial.” Other poor quality photos (‘q’, ‘r’, ‘s’) were copied from the videotape movie by Hans Behrendt called "Historische Glassonnenuhren" 1989. He said: "In 1966, Dr. Somerville of Mendota England photographed dial at the Wilanów castle in Warsaw. In 1984, a Mrs. Zusanna Prószynska from Warsaw inquired after the sundial, in particular the activity of the artist. Apparently, she was doing research on the clocks of
King Stanislaus August Poniatowski”.
Photos: a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s
From: sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de [mailto:sundial-boun...@uni-koeln.de] On Behalf Of JOHN DAVIS
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:43 AM
To: Fred Sawyer; Frank King
Cc: Sundial List
Subject: Re: Analemma origins.
I'm tempted to digress further.. When was the first graphical - Cartesian - representation of the EoT on a real sundial (date as the x-axis and EoT on the y-axis)? I haven't been able to find one prior to 1900 though I feel there must be one somewhere.
Re questions on the representation of the figure-8 analemma: no one has yet mentioned Chris Daniel's BSS monograph on the subject, sadly out of print at the moment...
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Dr J Davis
Flowton Dials
--- On Sun, 15/11/09, Frank King <frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
From: Frank King <frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Analemma origins.
To: "Fred Sawyer" <fwsaw...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Sundial List" <sundial@uni-koeln.de>
Date: Sunday, 15 November, 2009, 16:59
Dear Fred,
You tempt me to digress...
> Once we have the idea of graphing tabular values...
It seems that the idea of graphs and graphing is not
nearly as ancient as one might expect.
I commend a book:
Cosmic Imagery: Key Images in the History of Science
- John D. Barrow, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc.
This has fascinating things to say about the earliest
graphs and you can see a transcript of a lecture given
by John Barrow at:
http://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=108&EventId=748
In this he says:
...something that most people are surprised to learn is
a rather late arrival on the human intellectual scene:
the
graph, the good old graph. Everybody thinks the
Greeks must have been drawing graphs, and Isaac Newton
must have been drawing graphs. Neither of them ever did!
...the first graph that I... was able to find... was drawn
in the tenth century by an unknown monk in France. He was
giving some lectures ... and he wanted to illustrate ...
where the planets were...
You have to wait until the mid-1300s before you find Erasme
using graphs that he called latitudes in a slightly different
way. They look like graphs, but they have no scales, they
usually have no axes, and he uses them as a sort of shorthand.
Of course it depends what you mean by 'graph'. The 'first graph'
that John Barrow refers to has clear
horizontal and vertical grid
lines and looks recognisably like a present-day graph, albeit
with the grid drawn freehand!
He gave the same lecture in Cambridge last March and since I
gave the immediately-following lecture (about the analemma!!)
I challenged him by asserting that I would count as a graph
any kind of two-dimensional plot...
I mentioned that there are plenty of pre-Christian-era sundials
which, in essence, allow the graph-like plotting of the path
followed by the tip of a gnomon during the course of a day.
He didn't accept that such dials are true graphs and I can
understand that.
Nevertheless I shall persist in thinking of dials as being
very closely related to graphs even if they are not quite the
same thing!!
Frank
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